Another gun thread...

[Napoléon]

Yeah, it's a raging topic at the moment, but there's one question I'd like to ask which I asked before and it never really got answered by any of the pro-guns gang.

What is it that gives someone 'the right to bear arms'?

I'd rather not get into the whole founding fathers/constitution/fighting oppressive governments crap (unless that really is the reason you think you're entitled to bear arms, because your government says so).

Rather I'd like to discuss from a more moral point of view. Is it to do with self defence? Is it to do with personal freedom?

It's something I'd like to hear arguments for, as all everyone argues about at the moment is about taking guns away, not really giving much in depth reason (from what I've seen) as to why anyone should be entitled in the first place.

Any takers?


Oh, and I'm interested to see what people think in my poll

*edit* I should specify that the question in the poll isn't concerning the constitutional sense, rather in the general moral sense of how we define rights.

[Something completely different]

[KichigaiNeko]

Depends on what you think you are going to do with such a weapon. I'm no hunter and live in suburbia. While it is very nice that if my current living situation should change and I live say on a property; miles from my neighbours, with Roos and other feral animals on my property then I would rethink my need for a rifle/ fire-arm and am glad that this is considered in our law here.

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But this is Australia and the issue I think is for the american people to come to terms with.

[Minimalist]

[KichigaiNeko]

Min to the rescue!!

There ya go lawmakers of USA...ban bullets!!

I am amazed no stoopid pollie has made this statement yet.

[Minimalist]

It's been proposed.

[KichigaiNeko]

Oh dear

[TaraJo]

I'm not sure what to think about this one.

When strict gun control laws are passed, it doesn't seem to have a significant effect on gun violence. Based on that, I'm not a big fan of gun control laws. But I do recogonize that there are real problems that need to be dealt with here.

We obviously have a problem in this nation with gun violence and we need to start talking about it and we need to start talking about REAL solutions. This would mean looking at the real root issues behind gun violence and what we can do about them. Poverty breeds crime and violence and, obviously, is something we need to fix. Lack of mental health care is an issue, too, since a lot of people who could easily deal with their problems with therapy instead choose to resolve their problems with a shotgun.

The only solution I seem to hear from the simple minded Republicans is that here would be no gun violence if everyone was armed. No. If one kid in preschool is throwing rocks at another, the solution isn't to make sure both kids have rocks to throw. And as much as I hate to say it, we need them to cooperate because we aren't going to be able to deal with gun violence on a national level without both sides working together. Truth is, when almost 30 people were killed, most of them children, and your first concern is that your guns will be taken away, you are a horrible, disgusting excuse for a human being.

Personally, I'd love it if we looked at other industrialized nations with lower murder rates and do what they've done to get those low murder rates. I don't see that happening, though, not with the ultra-xenophobic aspects of the right who always want to do the exact opposite of what Europe does (even when it works).

And, sadly, I don't see anything changing. Not anytime soon, anyway. Obama won't be able to sign any laws without congress passing the law first and the Republican controlled senate is too stubborn to pass any kind of significant law that will help with these problems.

[Zen Badger]

Technically, Godwins law has just reared its ugly head

[5thHorseman]

I think everyone should be allowed the option of gun ownership. But! I think there are limits. I think ex-cons shouldnt be allowed guns (certain crimes, not petty crimes), people with history of mental illnesses (only certain illnesses). I'd also ban auto's rifles and have a limit on how many guns. Also - all guns and bullets regisetered to the owner.

That is all.