Views on Islam

[Minimalist]

Brakeman nailed it.

I'll just add....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonb...tives.html

The recent death of 13-year old Yemeni child bride Elham Assi, who reportedly bled to death last week after being tied down and forced to have sex with her 23-year-old husband, has sparked outrage among rights activists in Yemen.

They are now stepping up their lobbying efforts to push for the implementation of a child marriage ban.

But that may prove a daunting challenge since fierce opposition against a ban on child brides still runs high among some religious leaders and conservatives.

Sheik Mohammed Hamzi, an official of the Islamist Yemeni opposition party Islaah and the imam of the Al-Rahman mosque in the Yemeni capital of Sana, is one of those who staunchly opposes a legal ban on child marriage.

[DeistPaladin]

Hey i use to be an atheist but converted to Islam. Back in the day i use to love hitting on Islam.
I was just wondering what Athiests views are these days on Islam.

Islam = Christianity with a bit of Arabic flavor.

Believers in either sect will insist that they are very different but from the naturalist's and skeptic's perspective, there's a greater difference in their costumes than their theology.

[Tobie]

Islam is no better than any other religion - worse in some cases (due to the arab tribal stuff that is associated with it, like hijjab or the women/gay oppression). The only thing IMO we should be grateful for Islam for is their push to translate old greek maths stuff and possibly their art.

[Brakeman]

As for the women being buried im guessing for punishment for adultury. Due to people burying her it appears to be something like the taliban carrying out the punishment not an Islamic state telling me that it hasn't gone through the correct Islamic court system. Unless you can give me a reference showing it has. Again i would count that picture as haram in islam. So i would regard all the images haram(prohibited)

*Edit* i retract my statements on the whipping one noticed the iran in the top their.
However i couldnt comment on if it haram or not because i dont know why he is being whipped. Plus it is a shia state so may have some laws which i would regard as haram.

The stoning of the woman was in Iran. It was a very big legal case that she lost. She was raped by her brother-in-law is what I remember.. But It does NOT matter if these were Haram or not, this is how Islam is practiced in this world in reality. The Islam that you have in your head exists in an imaginary world. These pictures represent Islam in reality. All you can do is make excuses.

[CapnAwesome]

Why is it that Theists of every stripe love to claim they used to be Atheists. Amazing how many Atheists there were, you'd think the streets were teaming with them. Color me skeptical. If you don't mind a few questions, how old are you now, and how old were you when you converted? What was the religion of your parents and grandparents? On what basis did you come to prefer Islam?

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Hey i use to be an atheist but converted to Islam. Back in the day i use to love hitting on Islam.
I was just wondering what Athiests views are these days on Islam.

Islam = Christianity with a bit of Arabic flavor.

Believers in either sect will insist that they are very different but from the naturalist's and skeptic's perspective, there's a greater difference in their costumes than their theology.

I understand your viewpoint but i would argue they are completely different. Different concept and natures of god.

---

Brakeman nailed it.

I'll just add....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonb...tives.html

The recent death of 13-year old Yemeni child bride Elham Assi, who reportedly bled to death last week after being tied down and forced to have sex with her 23-year-old husband, has sparked outrage among rights activists in Yemen.

They are now stepping up their lobbying efforts to push for the implementation of a child marriage ban.

But that may prove a daunting challenge since fierce opposition against a ban on child brides still runs high among some religious leaders and conservatives.

Sheik Mohammed Hamzi, an official of the Islamist Yemeni opposition party Islaah and the imam of the Al-Rahman mosque in the Yemeni capital of Sana, is one of those who staunchly opposes a legal ban on child marriage.

"death of 13-year old Yemeni child bride Elham Assi, who reportedly bled to death last week after being tied down and forced to have sex with her 23-year-old husband"
Why that article is truly shocking. And barbaric. But is haram in islam based on the Qur'an.
As for marriage age it is when the person is physically(puberty) and mentally ready for marriage. And marriage can only take place by consent from the man and the women.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_mar...ssible_age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baligh

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As for the women being buried im guessing for punishment for adultury. Due to people burying her it appears to be something like the taliban carrying out the punishment not an Islamic state telling me that it hasn't gone through the correct Islamic court system. Unless you can give me a reference showing it has. Again i would count that picture as haram in islam. So i would regard all the images haram(prohibited)

*Edit* i retract my statements on the whipping one noticed the iran in the top their.
However i couldnt comment on if it haram or not because i dont know why he is being whipped. Plus it is a shia state so may have some laws which i would regard as haram.

The stoning of the woman was in Iran. It was a very big legal case that she lost. She was raped by her brother-in-law is what I remember.. But It does NOT matter if these were Haram or not, this is how Islam is practiced in this world in reality. The Islam that you have in your head exists in an imaginary world. These pictures represent Islam in reality. All you can do is make excuses.

Raped by her brother in law why was she stoned to death? And personally i believe it does matter if it is haram or not. As you cannot hold up a persons actions and claim that this is what the Qur'an teaches if it infact against the religion. By these knowledge i can claim that the attacks between protestants and catholics in ireland is biblically based. Or viewpoints of athiest's on this forum stand for the viewpoint of all athiests. But I get your point brother.

---

Why is it that Theists of every stripe love to claim they used to be Atheists. Amazing how many Atheists there were, you'd think the streets were teaming with them. Color me skeptical. If you don't mind a few questions, how old are you now, and how old were you when you converted? What was the religion of your parents and grandparents? On what basis did you come to prefer Islam?

I was brought up christian. Read the bible thought wtf is this shit. Why's god ordering massacres. So became atheist big time. Had debates at school with people. Use to come on forums like this. Use to go on christian forums and debate and point on biblical errors or contradiction ect. Use to think religion was the worlds greatest evil. I really enjoy reading these comments because i used to say the same. I'm currently 17. Converted recently 5 months ago. I believe my dad and mam were christian but like not hardcore just general culture christian. Gonna say the same for my grandparents. Personally i choose Islam based on logic and proof. I've stayed because of the beauty of the religion and the rights it gives me people and the honour people are given. In short it's teachings.

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Keep posting your views. Im always interested in other peoples viewpoints. Wont be replying for a bit as gonna sleep.

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi,

How can you justify the following teaching from your religion.

Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great! Rodwell

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. Dawood

Here is a Hadith from Bukhari, vol. 7, # 715, that details Islamic wife beating:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's messenger came, Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's messenger! She has told a lie. I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa." Allah's messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes." The prophet said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.""

Note Islamic women were suffering from beating more than their non muslum counterparts: "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!"

Mahummad commanded a woman to marry a man who beat women.

Book 009, Number 3527:

…She said: Mu'awiya and Abu'l-Jahm were among those who had given me the proposal of marriage. Thereupon Allah's Apostle said: Mu'awiya is destitute and in poor condition and Abu'l-Jahm is very harsh with women (or he beats women, or like that), you should take Usama b. Zaid (as your husband).



HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD

CHAPTER 709 ON BEATING WOMEN #2142

Umar reported the prophet as saying: "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife".

HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF IBN-I-MAJAH

Like Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah also has a short chapter dedicated to the topic of wife beating.

#1985

Iyas b. ‘Abdullah, the son of Abu Dhubab reported that Allah’s Messenger said, "Do not beat the slave girls (women folk)." Then Umar visited the Holy Prophet and said, "Allah’s Messenger, women have become emboldened towards their husbands. So allow us to beat them. So, they were beaten (when permission was granted). upon this many groups of women went round the family of Muhammad. When it was morning, he, (the Holy Prophet), said, "Seventy women went round the family of Muhammad this night. Every woman was making a complaint against her spouse. You will not find them the best among you.



#1986

Ash’ath b. Qais is reported to have said, "One night Umar arranged a feast. When it was midnight, he got up and went towards his wife to beat her. I separated them both. When he went to bed, he said to me, "O Ash’ath, preserve from me a thing that I heard from Allah’s messenger. (These things are): A man will not be taken to task for beating his wife (for valid reasons) and do not sleep without observing witr prayer." I forgot the third (exhortation).

Mahummad was known to have hit his wives, himself.

Sahih Muslim #2127:

…When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?…

Sahih Muslim #3506:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess….

So as you can see the Muslum religion encourages domestic violence against women. This is a terrible thing and should not be allowed to happen. You should seriously consider what they are taught and believe.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Hi,

How can you justify the following teaching from your religion.

Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great! Rodwell

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. Dawood

Here is a Hadith from Bukhari, vol. 7, # 715, that details Islamic wife beating:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's messenger came, Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's messenger! She has told a lie. I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa." Allah's messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes." The prophet said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.""

Note Islamic women were suffering from beating more than their non muslum counterparts: "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!"

Mahummad commanded a woman to marry a man who beat women.

Book 009, Number 3527:

…She said: Mu'awiya and Abu'l-Jahm were among those who had given me the proposal of marriage. Thereupon Allah's Apostle said: Mu'awiya is destitute and in poor condition and Abu'l-Jahm is very harsh with women (or he beats women, or like that), you should take Usama b. Zaid (as your husband).



HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD

CHAPTER 709 ON BEATING WOMEN #2142

Umar reported the prophet as saying: "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife".

HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF IBN-I-MAJAH

Like Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah also has a short chapter dedicated to the topic of wife beating.

#1985

Iyas b. ‘Abdullah, the son of Abu Dhubab reported that Allah’s Messenger said, "Do not beat the slave girls (women folk)." Then Umar visited the Holy Prophet and said, "Allah’s Messenger, women have become emboldened towards their husbands. So allow us to beat them. So, they were beaten (when permission was granted). upon this many groups of women went round the family of Muhammad. When it was morning, he, (the Holy Prophet), said, "Seventy women went round the family of Muhammad this night. Every woman was making a complaint against her spouse. You will not find them the best among you.



#1986

Ash’ath b. Qais is reported to have said, "One night Umar arranged a feast. When it was midnight, he got up and went towards his wife to beat her. I separated them both. When he went to bed, he said to me, "O Ash’ath, preserve from me a thing that I heard from Allah’s messenger. (These things are): A man will not be taken to task for beating his wife (for valid reasons) and do not sleep without observing witr prayer." I forgot the third (exhortation).

Mahummad was known to have hit his wives, himself.

Sahih Muslim #2127:

…When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?…

Sahih Muslim #3506:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess….

So as you can see the Muslum religion encourages domestic violence against women. This is a terrible thing and should not be allowed to happen. You should seriously consider what they are taught and believe.

Beautiful response. I like it quran quotes and hadiths. Well done brother. I will reply once i wake.

[Minimalist]

Why that article is truly shocking. And barbaric. But is haram in islam based on the Qur'an.

You know what? Every group has a reason why other representatives of that group aren't TRUE ____________. (Fill in the blank.)

I don't really give a shit about who is a True Muslim or True Xtian or True Jew. If you want the title of any of them you can have it. I do not consider it a badge of honor in any case.

People who believe in sky-daddys watching over them and giving them rules to live by are pretty much off the deep end as far as I am concerned and I really cannot be bothered sorting out all the different sects, creeds, and churches which they divide themselves into.

To paraphrase Shakespeare: " A pox on all your houses. "

[Welsh cake]

Islam's just another religion, just another excuse among thousands, for this violent barbaric raping murdering species to condole and/or justify its own immoral actions against itself, other species, and the planet.

There are times when I wish there were an omni-benevolent being of sorts out there, who'd put us out of our fucking misery and smash a comet into this pathetic tiny world.

Alas, no such being exists, whereas we do exist, and continue to exist, and the violence, the same bloodshed, under different motives, different names, different labels, be it Fascism, Christianity, Islam or whatever, also continues.