Gun Control: Say What you Mean.

[Brian37]

why is the left so afraid to condemn China for growing it's military power and it's funneling of money and arms to state terrorists and dictators like Iran & North Korea? Why is the left giving China a pass on it's human rights violations?.....
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010.../?page=all

A shortlist of dictators supported by the USA:

* King Abdullah Bin Abdul-Aziz, Saudi Arabia
* Islam Karimov, Uzbekistan
* Idriss Deby, Chad
* Teodoro Obiang Nguema, Equatorial Guinea
* Gurbanguly Berdymuhammedov (Turkmenistan)
* Paul Biya, Cameroon
* Hosni Said Moebarak, Egypt
* Joseph Museveni, Uganda
*etc... etc. etc..
Also dozens of right-wing dictatorships during the cold war, including horrible regimes.

Here's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in support of the Iraq-war against Iran. Later in the war, Iraq used gas against civilian peoples.


People with ideas like you have, A Theist, are a threat to your country!!

Isn't there video of McCain shaking hands with Gaddaffi? In all fairness to the right wing nuts. I really don't think out of the entire planet we can avoid contact with assholes. China's communist party isn't exactly for political pluralism nor is it good on human rights issues.

I do get what you are saying. But global politics isn't as simple as "always or never". It would be nice if we could nuke the world of all dictators and never have to deal with them, but we cant.

[A Theist]

why is the left so afraid to condemn China for growing it's military power and it's funneling of money and arms to state terrorists and dictators like Iran & North Korea? Why is the left giving China a pass on it's human rights violations?.....
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010.../?page=all

A shortlist of dictators supported by the USA:

* King Abdullah Bin Abdul-Aziz, Saudi Arabia
* Islam Karimov, Uzbekistan
* Idriss Deby, Chad
* Teodoro Obiang Nguema, Equatorial Guinea
* Gurbanguly Berdymuhammedov (Turkmenistan)
* Paul Biya, Cameroon
* Hosni Said Moebarak, Egypt
* Joseph Museveni, Uganda
*etc... etc. etc..
Also dozens of right-wing dictatorships during the cold war, including horrible regimes.

Here's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in support of the Iraq-war against Iran. Later in the war, Iraq used gas against civilian peoples.


People with ideas like you have, A Theist, are a threat to your country!!

...and europe and the uk have their own short list of dictators they do business with...British Prime Minister, David Cameron shaking hands with Bahrain's King Hamad bin Isa al-Khlifa, 08/23/2012

People with ideas like you have, A Theist, are a threat to your country!!

No....it's leftists like you, Dee Diddlely Dee, who are a threat to the security of international peace and stability with your simpleminded and narrow world view that all is peace and love, and the U.S. is the evil empire that needs to be disarmed....and it's the cowardice of leftists like you, whose too afraid to stand up and challenge China and Russia for their military build up, their human rights violations, and their support of states like Iran and North Korea who sponsor terrorism and who threaten their neighbors...Our strength is our peace.

[Brian37]

A shortlist of dictators supported by the USA:

* King Abdullah Bin Abdul-Aziz, Saudi Arabia
* Islam Karimov, Uzbekistan
* Idriss Deby, Chad
* Teodoro Obiang Nguema, Equatorial Guinea
* Gurbanguly Berdymuhammedov (Turkmenistan)
* Paul Biya, Cameroon
* Hosni Said Moebarak, Egypt
* Joseph Museveni, Uganda
*etc... etc. etc..
Also dozens of right-wing dictatorships during the cold war, including horrible regimes.

Here's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in support of the Iraq-war against Iran. Later in the war, Iraq used gas against civilian peoples.


People with ideas like you have, A Theist, are a threat to your country!!

...and europe and the uk have their own short list of dictators they do business with...British Prime Minister, David Cameron shaking hands with Bahrain's King Hamad bin Isa al-Khlifa, 08/23/2012

People with ideas like you have, A Theist, are a threat to your country!!

No....it's leftists like you who are a threat to the security of international peace and stability with your simpleminded and narrow world view that all is peace and love, and the U.S. is the evil empire that needs to be disarmed....and it's the cowardice of leftists like you, whose too afraid to stand up and challenge China and Russia for their military build up, their human rights violations, and their support of states like Iran and North Korea who sponsor terrorism and who threaten their neighbors...Our strength is our peace.

Us "leftists"? No, I was born in this country, I love my freedom and the Constitution as much as anyone else. I am sick of sore losers like you trying to paint us as godless monsters simply because we don't share the same political or religious labels.

I don't want to hear shit about "leftists" when your hero Regan sold weapons to a dictator in exchange for hostages, and then had his minion lie about it.

And the entire world was impressed with that goldmine of WMDs that Bush Jr found.......Oh wait.

Now, here is what I can do that you cant do because you breath the stench of Fucks News. Regan was NOT all bad as a president, and NO president is perfect in any case. His son Ron Jr loved him, and would say he was a good man even if he did not end up sharing the same views.

My mother voted for Mitt Romney and I do not disown her because I disagree with her voting habits.

You think life is your script that everyone else should follow. Sorry, but the universe is not centered around you or your personal wishes as to how our country should be run.

In our OUR, let me repeat OUR, Constitutional republic, WE means WE, not you, and not only when you get what you want.

Now you think atheists cant value western open societies?

http://www.maaf.info , Tell those godless monsters they are unpatriotic. I am quite sure they'll either laugh in your face, or pity you.

So suck it up and live in the real world, and here is how the real world works. Sometimes you win an election, and sometimes you lose an election. Our country has been through a Revolutionary war, a civil war and 2 world wars, and 43 presidents. And guess what? We are still here.

"Boo hoo, someone else is in the driver's seat, I want my mommy". I'm sorry but I cant breast feed you.

[A Theist]

Us "leftists"? No, I was born in this country, I love my freedom and the Constitution as much as anyone else. I am sick of sore losers like you trying to paint us as godless monsters simply because we don't share the same political or religious labels.

I don't want to hear shit about "leftists" when your hero Regan sold weapons to a dictator in exchange for hostages, and then had his minion lie about it.

And the entire world was impressed with that goldmine of WMDs that Bush Jr found.......Oh wait.

Now, here is what I can do that you cant do because you breath the stench of Fucks News. Regan was NOT all bad as a president, and NO president is perfect in any case. His son Ron Jr loved him, and would say he was a good man even if he did not end up sharing the same views.

My mother voted for Mitt Romney and I do not disown her because I disagree with her voting habits.

You think life is your script that everyone else should follow. Sorry, but the universe is not centered around you or your personal wishes as to how our country should be run.

In our OUR, let me repeat OUR, Constitutional republic, WE means WE, not you, and not only when you get what you want.

Now you think atheists cant value western open societies?

http://www.maaf.info , Tell those godless monsters they are unpatriotic. I am quite sure they'll either laugh in your face, or pity you.

So suck it up and live in the real world, and here is how the real world works. Sometimes you win an election, and sometimes you lose an election. Our country has been through a Revolutionary war, a civil war and 2 world wars, and 43 presidents. And guess what? We are still here.

"Boo hoo, someone else is in the driver's seat, I want my mommy". I'm sorry but I cant breast feed you.

...yeah, that's what I said, you leftists, you naive and ignorant leftists....and where in my post did I say anything about atheists and godless monsters, Mitt Romney, our Constitutional republic, and the presidential election, strawman?....I'm addressing the left's stupid and ignorant, narrowminded world view, that all is peace and love, and America is the evil empire,...while the ridiculously naive and cowardly left gives countries like Russia and China a free pass for their military build up, human rights violations, and their supporting of states like Iran and North Korea who fund terrorism and who threaten their neighbors?...

[Brian37]

narrowminded world view

Said the sore loser who cant stand others in the driver's seat.

Now, you use "leftist" as a slur. Sorry, but that doesn't wash here. Take your diaper off baby put your big boy pants on.

[DeistPaladin]

...strawman?....I'm addressing the left's stupid and ignorant, narrowminded world view, that all is peace and love, and America is the evil empire,...

In addition to the strawman fallacy, this is an argument also based on the false dilemma fallacy. Specifically, that the choice for America's foreign policy is either aggression of pushover passivity. And before you accuse me of setting up a strawman, if you still support W Bush's war in Iraq, you advocate aggression and preemptive warfare.

In reality, there's a fine line between these two extremes of bullying and wimpy behavior and it's called being "assertive". You can actually fight for your rights while respecting the rights of others. THAT'S what we on the left, or at least I on the left, advocate.

If you need an example of each:
1st Gulf War: Assertive (defending a nation that had been invaded)
2nd Gulf War: Aggressive (invading a nation without adequate provocation)

Clear?

Now as for military spending...



I think we can cut our military budget in half (there's 350 billion in spending cuts right there!) and still be outspending China and Russia combined. Oh, by the way, they hate each other. Don't think we need to worry about the UK. I think they're cool with our independence now. France won't be invading us anytime soon either.

Let me be blunt: As long as we keep pouring money into this bloated Cold War defense budget, we on the left don't need to concede one damn dime in social safety net or school budget cuts.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

...and europe and the uk have their own short list of dictators they do business with...British Prime Minister, David Cameron shaking hands with Bahrain's King Hamad bin Isa al-Khlifa, 08/23/2012

Blablabla, my post was a direct response on your selective outrage towards China;

A Theist Wrote: why is the left so afraid to condemn China for growing it's military power and it's funneling of money and arms to state terrorists and dictators like Iran & North Korea? Why is the left giving China a pass on it's human rights violations?.....

[TaraJo]

That's quite a presumption. I want reasonable restrictions placed on guns while still allowing most people to own guns. Why do you assume I "want to throw people in a cage if they don't hand (their guns) over to the government"? What if I am actually saying what I mean?

I think you're being too defensive, even there: what the guy is actually saying is "you want to imprison people for disobeying the law?!" Well... yes, yes I do. I'd like to enact restrictions on gun ownership, and punish the people who break those laws, possibly with prison time. Yes, I would like that.

What does the OP think the alternative is? Or is it just that he personally disagrees with the laws gun control activists would like to see, and therefore ANY punishment for breaking them would be crazy and over the top?

You break the law, you get punished, that's part of humanity's social contract. It sounds like the OP has more of a problem with the prison system, than gun control.

Well, even that isn't exactly how I feel.

Yes, I do think we need meaningful gun legislation passed but, no, I don't think it should include locking people up or taking away guns from mass numbers of people.

Truth is, we have a problem with violence here in America. Limiting the guns might help, but at this point it would be kinda like locking the barn door after the cows already ran off. But regulating guns is a different story. I mean, I've heard a comparison from several gun advocates: "Cars kill more people than guns but nobody wants to take away cars." I agree with them here; nobody wants to tak away cars, but cars are VERY highly regulated. There are speed limits, insurance laws, licensing for both the driver and the car (which can be revoked), vehicle inspections, driver testing and laws that prevent you from driving while under the influence of alcohol. So if we're going to compare cars to guns, fine, let's regulate guns as well as we do cars. How about licensing guns? How about getting gun owners to get insurance on their weapons? How about background checks for all gun sales? How about laws that hold people accountable when their improperly stored gun is used criminally by a third party? Every time someone suggests any of these things, half the nation starts screaming "Gubamint gonna tak my guns!" About the only thing the NRA and other gun groups seem to get right is the importance of gun education.

[A Theist]

...and europe and the uk have their own short list of dictators they do business with...British Prime Minister, David Cameron shaking hands with Bahrain's King Hamad bin Isa al-Khlifa, 08/23/2012

Blablabla, my post was a direct response on your selective outrage towards China;

A Theist Wrote: why is the left so afraid to condemn China for growing it's military power and it's funneling of money and arms to state terrorists and dictators like Iran & North Korea? Why is the left giving China a pass on it's human rights violations?.....

...and my post was a direct response to the ignorance and the cowardly double standards of the left and their selective outrage against the U.S.

[Brian37]

Was Thomas Jefferson a "leftist" for supporting the French Revolution? We all know how that ended up. Now, there is no doubt he didn't support the final outcome of Napoleon ending up as dictator. But certainly I think he would have done things differently in retrospect if he could have seen that outcome coming.

You stupidly think that life is some sort of utopia where things are never messy if things only go your way. The real world is not as simplistic as party label. Nor do your childish slurs constitute anyone who doesn't share the same policy views as making us "leftists" the "boogieman".

I am sorry you cant handle pluralism, politically or policy wise. But neither you or the party or the religion you support are entitled to dictate to the rest of us as to "what should be".

You want to compete or make an argument, that is one thing. But your childish chicken little "the sky is falling" is pathetic.

I've pointed out rightfully that ALL presidents in OUR history have never been perfect all the time, some have made worse messes than others, but in all this we have bent and only one period did we almost break, but even the Civil War didn't cause the end of this country.

So please, take your fear mongering crap and Fucks News talking points and politely stick it where the sun don't shine.