Would you rather live under an oppressive religious or securlar government?

[Something completely different]

My problem is, what is the standerd on which one can compare and rate evil?

I would never tell a Russian: "Yeah we fucked up your country, but Stalin to was bad."

The perputators in crime have to stand trial and be judged individualy, and they have to be judged because of their crimes.
The crimes of others dont justify you to commit a crime.
When polaris argues that both a secular regime and religious regime would be horrible, he forgets the fact that both of them are horrible, and that the crimes of one regime do not justify nore "lighten up" the crimes of the oposing one.

What kind of a world would we live in if it would be like that? If everyone could declare himself judge and executionor justifying ones crimes with the crimes of others?

[Brian37]

My problem is, what is the standerd on which one can compare and rate evil?

I would never tell a Russian: "Yeah we fucked up your country, but Stalin to was bad."

The perputators in crime have to stand trial and be judged individualy, and they have to be judged because of their crimes.
The crimes of others dont justify you to commit a crime.
When polaris argues that both a secular regime and religious regime would be horrible, he forgets the fact that both of them are horrible, and that the crimes of one regime do not justify nore "lighten up" the crimes of the oposing one.

What kind of a world would we live in if it would be like that? If everyone could declare himself judge and executionor justifying ones crimes with the crimes of others?

Can you take "good" or "evil" into a lab?

No, but we are not different. We create as a species "us vs them" because we want resources.

What kind of a world would we live in if it would be like that? If everyone could declare himself judge and executionor justifying ones crimes with the crimes of others?

Do you think women should be forced to submit to men? Do you think that majority rules all the time? Because many majorities in the middle east find it quite ok to tell women to be second class citizens. You should not judge that?

That is why we have elections , that is why we have bans on absolute power. So that any "judging" we do in a pluralistic society is guided, not by our own personal bias, but something we overlap on. Like a 25 mile speed limit in a school zone.

[Shell B]

You got kudos for this:

The perputators in crime have to stand trial and be judged individualy, and they have to be judged because of their crimes.
The crimes of others dont justify you to commit a crime.

Not sure where you were going with the rest of it.

As a mental exercise, this doesn't work. As Brian pointed out, there is always the choice of resistance. Without it, you take out the human aspect of the exercise, which renders it moot. For me, revolution would be the clear answer. Of course, some people would classify oppressive very loosely. I would have to see just what we are calling oppressive. If it is keeping religion out of public classrooms, I'm going secular. If it is aborting female children, I'm going neither. In no instance will I choose religious oppressive government. That is thought police shit. I will never be cool with a government that tells people what to think.

[Something completely different]

I am not talkin about resistance or anything like that.

I am critizising polaris way of arguing in general.
I am simply saying, one regime doesn`t justify another one.
The Soviet gulags dont justify the nazo concentration camps.
McCarthy`s actions arent justified by comunist espionage.
And 9/11 wouldnt justify declaring war against all muslims.

I am arguing from the point of a person living in a civil republic, hence representing it`s juristical values, which seek to trial crimes individualy on the moral standerds set by that republic.

When arguing against a inhuman, inmoral and radical possition the wrong thing to do would be to simply take the inhuman, unmoral and radical oposing position.
Which is clearly the case here, when comparing crimes of a religious regime with the crimes of a secular regime, whilest completly ignoring that crimes shouldnt be evaluated from a radical possition but from a independent possition, at least in a court in a republic.

[Brian37]

I have ruffled many feathers since my debut here.

Does god belief of any ilk make me want to pull my hair out? HELL FUCKING YES.

But not because I can always get what I want, or that because I think I can get a utopia. But because someone made a claim I disagreed with that drives me nuts.

There is no human on the face of the planet, past or present, that was not driven nuts by things others might have said, NO MATTER THE ISSUE.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, just think of all those poor people trapped under the secular governments of Switzerland, France, Holland, Sweden, Norway, Canada, New Zeland etc. Their lives must be truly wretched. The mass killing they have had to endure even to this day at the hands of their secular leaders is unthinkable.

Said no one ever.

(Except for maybe Polaris.)

[Something completely different]

Swizerland isn`t secular.

It is a very federal goverment, the 26 states (Kantone) are practicaly autonomous and determine their own constitution by themselves, including the seperation of religion and state.

Article 15 of the federal constitution may guarantee the freedom for and of religion in Swizerland, but the states can make decisions independently.

I am not sure in which ones, but in some states (Kantone) religion and state is not seperated in Swizerland. I think in Uri for example, but I am not sure.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Swizerland isn`t secular.

It is a very federal goverment, the 26 states (Kantone) are practicaly autonomous and determine their own constitution by themselves, including the seperation of religion and state.

Article 15 of the federal constitution may guarantee the freedom for and of religion in Swizerland, but the states can make decisions independently.

I am not sure in which ones, but in some states (Kantone) religion and state is not seperated in Swizerland. I think in Uri for example, but I am not sure.

I was just going by Wikipedia.

[FallentoReason]

I have two different answers depending on if I were Christian or not.

Ok, I can somewhat predict what way you would sway...

As a Christian, I would go with the secular government because I would not want to be forced to follow any belief patterns that would be in conflict with my own.

Are you serious?! What if the belief just happened to be... oh, I dunno... Christianity?

Now if I were atheist, I would probably go with the religious government on the basis I would probably live much longer under such a system. Religion has always been a great tool to create stability with less bloodshed than under similarly oppressive secular governments.

WHAT. Hellooo... crusades? Inquisition?

Sure, I probably had to follow their rules and worship, but what meaning would worshiping really have?

It gets worse; how could it ever be a good idea to allow an ancient book access to government so that it could apply its superstition as law?

Only 16 or so people were killed in the Salem Witch Trials, but the fear created by it made it seem so much worse...religion can kill a few dozen and their deaths become great motivators for the people to get back in line. Kill one person, scare a thousand into submission...probably because the fear it also meant damnation as well.

With secular governments, they have resorted to wiping out whole villages in their nations to achieve the same level of fear and control...this is probably because those who rule with religion already have a sense of legitimacy that others must prove through force to similarly maintain.

*facepalm*

I give you 2/10 for this apologetic tactic to shoehorn your belief into us. From the first paragraph I could tell you weren't answering your own question sincerely. Of course you would like to live under a religious government as a Christian. Naturally, you want entire countries to convert to Christianity in the ideal world.

[Zen Badger]

Other question



Will you support me in building up my Reich?

Can I be in charge of the Luftwaffe?