Christian Persecution in "Atheist China"

[Zone]

I like the comment where the reporter points that the Chinese have figured out just making some money won't bring true lasting happiness, they need the supernatural as well.

I've seen this point made many times before but wouldn't this mean religion is essentially a pointless leisure activity? Or does it have real tangible psychological benefits to the people involved?

[Anomalocaris]

The reporter is full of shit, making a obvious sop to the religious elsewhere. The Chinese weren't any less superstitious when they were poorer than dirt. Stupid people will resort to the supernature if they are rich and bored, if they are dying of hunger and grasping for manna from heaven, and everywhere in between.

Religion is a tangible expression of stupid wish thinking. Stupid wishful thinkers are in society at every level of wealth, and of every political structure.

[Zone]

I think he more meant that there must clearly be some deeper truth if people who are otherwise well off with everything they need materially still feel the yearning for the supernatural forces of power. It's a Christian staple argument where anything that you base your life on that isn't God, (money, family, science and so on) will be a false idol and only bring you mysery should that idol of happiness fail you. But God will never fail you (because you can't prove he exists) so you should base your life on him/Christ instead. This will be the subject of books with titles such as "False Gods".



Not that one though, that's the Horus Heresy.

But what people would probably need is full physical wealth and comfort and immortality as well, I think that's really the underlying point they're really making. You don't get to spend all your hard earned dough or enjoy whatever it is you you like when you're dead, so there's no point placing ultimate value in any of it.

[Confused Ape]

What I find interesting is the comment that it was once easy to know what to believe in - the Communist party.

The Chinese people had more than just Communism - there was the Personality Cult of Mao Zedong. After looking round various sources I chose the article on the Cultural China website.

In 1962, Mao proposed the Socialist Education Movement (SEM) in an attempt to educate the peasants to resist the temptations of feudalism and the sprouts of capitalism that he saw re-emerging in the countryside from Liu's economic reforms. Large quantities of politicized art were produced and circulated — with Mao at the center. Numerous posters, badges and musical compositions referenced Mao in the phrase "Chairman Mao is the red sun in our hearts" and a "Savior of the people".

In October 1966, Mao's Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-Tung, which was known as the Little Red Book was published. Party members were encouraged to carry a copy with them and possession was almost mandatory as a criterion for membership. Over the years, Mao's image became displayed almost everywhere, present in homes, offices and shops. His quotations were typographically emphasized by putting them in boldface or red type in even the most obscure writings. Music from the period emphasized Mao's stature, as did children's rhymes. The phrase Long Live Chairman Mao for ten thousand years was commonly heard during the era, which was traditionally a phrase reserved for the reigning Emperor.
Today, Mao is still regarded by some as the "never setting Red Sun". He has been compared to the Sage Kings of the classical China. Since 1950, over 40 million people have visited Mao's birthplace in Shaoshan, Hunan.

I found an article giving further information about how the cult has developed. Cult Of The Chairman

Mao Zedong has clearly entered the pantheon of Chinese folk deities, along with the Yellow Emperor and other legendary sages and heroes in Chinese history. And Shaoshan, visited by millions over the years, is the Lourdes of his cult.

This is not so strange. Humans have been worshipped as gods for thousands of years in China, and the point of Mao, in the eyes of the believers, is no longer whether he was good or bad; such categories do not apply to godmen. The point, as a taxi driver in Hunan pointed out to me when I asked him about the Mao charm dangling from his rearview mirror, is that Mao was Great, or weida . Greatness, in the sense of projecting great personal power, is much admired among the Chinese peoples; think of the continuing popularity of Mein Kampf in Taiwan.

A godman in China or Japan can still have entirely human characteristics - more so, perhaps, than Jesus Christ, whose status with some Chinese is somewhat similar to Mao's. In Changsha, the capital of Hunan, where Mao went to school and founded the regional communist party, I visited the provincial museum, where there is a lavish display of Mao's underwear. That is the interesting thing about godmen: they are both divine and very human.

This kind of behaviour isn't exclusive to Chinese people. I think it's related to something we don't think too much about in Western culture - celebrity worship. I'm going to quote the bit about fandom from the following article.

Do You Worship The Celebs?

According to psychologists, fan bases often resemble religions. The strong similarity of Star Trek fans to a religious cult has been widely noted, with fans organising conventions and recruiting new followers.
The obsessiveness of celebrity followers can also resemble religious worship. For example, fans will frequently pursue an interest in one celebrity and denigrate competing stars.
Fans will also perform rituals which have parallels in religion or cults. For example, they make sure they watch all of a celebrity's television appearances and try to collect items that have been touched by their chosen star.

Anyone who investigates fandom will soon find examples of rabid fanaticism and flame wars where virtual fur is flying over opinions such as "My favourite TV show/actor/interpretation of a story etc is better than yours.

Maybe humans, as a species, have some kind of need to worship something.

[Anomalocaris]

I think he more meant that there must clearly be some deeper truth if people who are otherwise well off with everything they need materially still feel the yearning for the supernatural forces of power. It's a Christian staple argument where anything that you base your life on that isn't God, (money, family, science and so on) will be a false idol and only bring you mysery should that idol of happiness fail you. But God will never fail you (because you can't prove he exists) so you should base your life on him/Christ instead. This will be the subject of books with titles such as "False Gods".



Not that one though, that's the Horus Heresy.

But what people would probably need is full physical wealth and comfort and immortality as well, I think that's really the underlying point they're really making. You don't get to spend all your hard earned dough or enjoy whatever it is you you like when you're dead, so there's no point placing ultimate value in any of it.

Is this the stupid reason behind your infantile need to think of the large scale structure of the universe to be analogous to neurons?

[Zone]

Is this the stupid reason behind your infantile need to think of the large scale structure of the universe to be analogous to neurons?

I only said it's technically possible I didn't say I believed in for certain. Seeing as I'm open minded and not a particularly dogmatic like yourself. At least there's something physical there to look at so it's a more interesting remote possibility.

[Simon Moon]

I only said it's technically possible I didn't say I believed in for certain. Seeing as I'm open minded and not a particularly dogmatic like yourself. At least there's something physical there to look at so it's a more interesting remote possibility.

Explain how it is 'technically possible' that the universe is analogous to neurons. By what mechanism would this be 'technically possible'?

You are not open minded, you are gullible.

As the anonymous quote goes, "don't be so open minded, your brain falls out".

[paulpablo]

It would be so good if they did that in america too, it would make all those christian con men raking in money from idiots via tv stations and evangelical churches shut the fuck up for once, we even get american evangelical tv channels broadcasting to here in the UK asking for donations, theres about 7 different channels broadcasting

[John V]

But what people would probably need is full physical wealth and comfort and immortality as well, I think that's really the underlying point they're really making. You don't get to spend all your hard earned dough or enjoy whatever it is you you like when you're dead, so there's no point placing ultimate value in any of it.

Yep, these points are made in Ecclesiastes.

[Anomalocaris]

But what people would probably need is full physical wealth and comfort and immortality as well, I think that's really the underlying point they're really making. You don't get to spend all your hard earned dough or enjoy whatever it is you you like when you're dead, so there's no point placing ultimate value in any of it.

Yep, these points are made in Ecclesiastes.

No kidding, a huckster's pamphlet touting the virtues of dodgy goods? Who would have thunk?