God is above conventional reason

[catfish]

I think you're a genius apophenia, now leave me alone...
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Dont stand in a public square at lunch break and tell everyone to leave you alone.

The very definition of a public square, means that it is public.



Or are you here for intentional, public comedic value?

I will play the fool, I love laughter...

As to what I said, it was a mind-fuck, watch what happens!

---

You figure it out for yourself...

That the good thing about it, it tells you to make up your own mind. Anyone who tells you that you must believe in the Bible or believe a certain way is actually going against what is written there... (your interpretation may vary)
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That's great! That's exactly what I did.

That's when I saw all the contradictions (internal and external), historical inaccuracies, moral atrocities, scientific hogwash, etc contained in the Bible. Add to that, that it was written by unknown authors decades or more after the alleged events, and it became obvious that is is not a reliable source for any of its supernatural claims.

There are not many Christians who want you to know that the Bible says a person does not need "the law" as it's written in their "hearts" (conscience).
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[Cyberman]

The C.S Lewis argument is that Christianity is so completely nuts no human in their right mind could ever make such a thing up. While all the other religions are clearly manmade because they seem somewhat reasonable by comparison.

I realise you may be speaking ironically here, not to mention that this argument is not your own, but ever hear of Scientology? If that's an example of a religion that makes xtianity seem reasonable, I think I want a divorce from the human race.

[Drich]

I've been reading many topics on this site and time and time again, atheists like to speak of "proof" and "reason".

The only problem with this is that God is above these things. These are human terms, thought of by humans, and decided among non-believers to be the thing to look for.

How can we use these man-made methods to measure the existence of the Creator that created us? There's no logic in that. God, and all things about Him, are above our minds and our conventional ways of thinking.

We use these ways of thinking on everything around us, literally speaking, but how are we supposed to use them on a GOD, something the human mind even has difficulty comprehending, something totally above us. We can't.

..But God can, right? Or Is it written that God has forbade himself for bridging the gap between God's Infinate wisdom and knoweledge, and man's finite ablities? That God does not give us understanding that we are supposed to remain in ignorance?

If so, and God does not 'bridge this gap.' Then where did Soloman's wisdom come from? Where did Paul get his insight?

[Esquilax]

I've been reading many topics on this site and time and time again, atheists like to speak of "proof" and "reason".

The only problem with this is that God is above these things. These are human terms, thought of by humans, and decided among non-believers to be the thing to look for.

How can we use these man-made methods to measure the existence of the Creator that created us? There's no logic in that. God, and all things about Him, are above our minds and our conventional ways of thinking.

We use these ways of thinking on everything around us, literally speaking, but how are we supposed to use them on a GOD, something the human mind even has difficulty comprehending, something totally above us. We can't.

..But God can, right? Or Is it written that God has forbade himself for bridging the gap between God's Infinate wisdom and knoweledge, and man's finite ablities? That God does not give us understanding that we are supposed to remain in ignorance?

If so, and God does not 'bridge this gap.' Then where did Soloman's wisdom come from? Where did Paul get his insight?

I'll save you some time:

... You're both wrong.

[Ryantology]

The Bible is for us to comprehend. It is our level.

Speak for yourself. Not all of us suffer from learning disabilities.

[Creed of Heresy]

*groans, places face in hand, facepalms slowly, smoothly, and in such an exhaustion-debilitated way of sheer weariness at the endless levels of contrivance and stupidity that he has to type out how the physical action happened in loving detail*

[WinterHold]

I agree with you.
One problem is that the concept of science itself is not understood probably by many people. Science is the studying of a natural phenomena, its core but not its reason or why it behaves like that.

The atom is the best example. Until this day nobody would answer you -scientifically- why the atom exists, why it behaves like that. Nobody would also tell you why the human heart beats, why that electricity is there.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/113/23/2775.full

a person like me would tell you that the human heart is so categorized & stuffed with numerous technologies which proves a mighty craftsmanship, I would also tell you that the CPU(MicroProcessor) is an invention because it is categorized in a way which proves creation, I would tell you also that it has the same concept of the human brain : memory, the ability to perform operations according to previous experiences.

another person would tell you that the human brain is not like that, and it's natural & a result of evolution. Just like a person who would tell you that the microprocessor is an alien technology from outer space... weird !

It is why I believe that the issue of god is something that a human must solve with his/her own mind without any kind of prior feelings or emotions about the subject.
When I came back to my religion, I remember starting to read by myself without any external intervention. Eventually it would all go to your logic, what you want and what you think about the world.
It is above conventional reason. And I'm a person who believes in science in any other field. But in this one pricelessly : science is not the best approach to prove god.

[Esquilax]

I agree with you.
One problem is that the concept of science itself is not understood probably by many people. Science is the studying of a natural phenomena, its core but not its reason or why it behaves like that.

The atom is the best example. Until this day nobody would answer you -scientifically- why the atom exists, why it behaves like that. Nobody would also tell you why the human heart beats, why that electricity is there.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/113/23/2775.full

Ahh, the old god of the gaps argument: we don't know yet, therefore god. That's nice and flawed.

It is why I believe that the issue of god is something that a human must solve with his/her own mind without any kind of prior feelings or emotions about the subject.

I have difficulty envisioning a person like that. Not all of us can be total amnesiacs, after all.

When I came back to my religion, I remember starting to read by myself without any external intervention. Eventually it would all go to your logic, what you want and what you think about the world.

Except that reality is independent of what you personally want, and what you think. Sometimes those things can match up, but not always.

It is above conventional reason. And I'm a person who believes in science in any other field. But in this one pricelessly : science is not the best approach to prove god.

I can't help but wonder if you'd be saying that if science could prove what you want it to prove.

[WinterHold]

Ahh, the old god of the gaps argument: we don't know yet, therefore god. That's nice and flawed.

It's a well known argument & it's not used by the religious folks only. It's called the leap of faith, you reach a certain level where you don't know the answer, you would also think that searching for the solution would take a very long time, without a guarantee that the solution might be discovered. Note that I'm not improvising this to prove my point, I use this method in writing my programs, without it it's impossible to continue any job I started, the only way to make sure is to reach the end of the road.

It's then when you go though the leap of faith to continue your work. It's nothing more than marking a goal, some people choose god, others choose nature, it's the same.

I have difficulty envisioning a person like that. Not all of us can be total amnesiacs, after all.

I did it, and still doing it until now : ) it's what you might call "unbiased approach". It is why I apologized after I did a bad thing for members in here. It is also why I think seriously about anything I read here, including atheist arguments. Without being "amnesiac", you will be lost eventually.

Except that reality is independent of what you personally want, and what you think. Sometimes those things can match up, but not always.

Religion is not what I want. It's a heavy burden on my back. I don't like the concept of hell, I don't like the concept of slavery to any deity.

I can't help but wonder if you'd be saying that if science could prove what you want it to prove.

Evolution goes against my believe. Still I study it seriously, I even tried to link it with my religion. Even though parts of it contradict religion, I never denied it.

Believe me it's not personal I have nothing to gain from defending Islam. I just say what I think is the most logical thing to my mind .

[Darkstar]

It's called the leap of faith, you reach a certain level where you don't know the answer, you would also think that searching for the solution would take a very long time, without a guarantee that the solution might be discovered.

Scientists are still trying anyway.

It's then when you go though the leap of faith to continue your work. It's nothing more than marking a goal, some people choose god, others choose nature, it's the same.

Problem is, theists aren't simply marking the goal, "I want to find evidence/proof of god", they are claiming to have reached the goal and calling it a day, without actually finding the answer. I do not know what is at the end, but I am pretty certain I know what isn't. If you claim to have the answer, i.e. god, without having an answer, then it is still simply god-of-the-gaps.