do religious people really believe?

[Mystical]

[paulpablo]

When medical intervention failed me, faith is all I had left to turn to. Sad but true.

is anyone else getting all the metallica references here, "sad but true", and the song "the god that failed" is about metallicas front mans mother refusing medical intervention then dying.

[Mystical]

Lol I don't listen to Metallica

[fr0d0]

Frodo you do know that faith is confidence in something and doubt is not having confidence in something, so youre basically saying "i dont have confidence in my religion so its a good job i have confidence in it." or "without lack of confidence in my religion i wouldnt need confidence in my religion"

That's the point I was making, yes.

The illustration demonstrates the nature if faith. Even with our intellectual assent and then trust, we're still crippled by our natures.

[paulpablo]

Of course. Without doubt I wouldn't need faith.

Frodo just by saying this you strike me as someone who doesnt really believe in god yourself.

In what other decision making process in deciding what to believe would anyone use this logic?

If you had a house built for you and someone asked you "do you think the builders did a good job, the house looks dangerous" i doubt anyone would say "well if i didnt have my doubts about the builders i wouldnt need to have faith in the builders"
Why do you have faith just to combat doubt? and why is there a need for the faith to be there? surely you have the faith based on a decision you dont just have the faith there for the sole purpose of defeating the doubt.

[fr0d0]

Doubt is also a good tool. We should be suspicious and test rather than blindly accept. Faith in anything is based on our best understanding of it.

We might come to trust that the chair we always use won't collapse under us. With God we can only rely on our correct understanding. Besides, it's written into Christianity to test for the truth. As it's a continual process rather than a one off choice, doubt and faith are major players.

[paulpablo]

Doubt is also a good tool. We should be suspicious and test rather than blindly accept. Faith in anything is based on our best understanding of it.

We might come to trust that the chair we always use won't collapse under us. With God we can only rely on our correct understanding. Besides, it's written into Christianity to test for the truth. As it's a continual process rather than a one off choice, doubt and faith are major players.

well normally id say insiginificant claims require little evidence and huge soul saving outlandish unbelievable claims require lots and lots of evidence

but your opinion is that day to day claims require evidence where as outlandish soul saving claims require more faith to combat the doubt and less evidence?

[fr0d0]

You don't seem to know what faith is, with respect Paul.

To have faith, according to the Xtian tradition, you must have information that you accept to be true. You must trust that information, and you must then also act upon it. With all three, you can then say that you have faith in God.

The less physical evidence you have, the greater intellectual understanding you will need.

[paulpablo]

You don't seem to know what faith is, with respect Paul.

To have faith, according to the Xtian tradition, you must have information that you accept to be true. You must trust that information, and you must then also act upon it. With all three, you can then say that you have faith in God.

The less physical evidence you have, the greater intellectual understanding you will need.

well i know what faith is for one thing.
Youre replying to this thread and saying its a fail to say religious people seem to have doubts about god because you say this is obvious, without a doubt you wouldnt need faith.
This doesnt make sense to me because faith is trust and confidence, doubt is lack of trust and confidence, so its like saying i lack confidence and trust in something so thats why i need to have confidence and trust in something.
But apart from that im assuming since youre relating to this thread in the first place that you do feel sad when young people die, and you havent given away the majority of your money so my question to you would be why? is it because as you said before youre crippled by your human nature? if you do have faith why not just say to yourself right i believe in god im a christian, theres definitely a heaven anyway so i dont have to worry about kids dying and i should give away the majority of my money to the poor because even if i die of poverty ill still get into heaven?
Im just saying if i believed in god this is exactly what i would do.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's the point I was making, yes.

The illustration demonstrates the nature if faith. Even with our intellectual assent and then trust, we're still crippled by our natures.

Huh? Crippled? Your very nature encourages and incubates faith.......