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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 3:52 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 3:53 pm by WinterHold.)
(February 25, 2013 at 2:19 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It does no such thing, whether or not a soul spends it's eternity in hell or not (and whether it -is- in fact in hell or not and for what)- is known only by Allah. The verse implies that Allah reserves the right to move the denizens of hell to heaven, but it does not prohibit him from condemning whomever He wishes to eternity in hell, as nothing can prohibit Allah from anything, being the Most High.
This contradicts with god's names & characteristics. God has 99 names in Islam, each name represents a feature in god. The most famous is "The merciful". So god's acts don't contradict his names.
The tortures is not among the names ; the angry is also not included also in those names. The Quran states clearly that god wished that his acts don't contradict his names & revealed that as number 1 rule in Islam..
Non of the names of god proves that he intends to torture people who don't believe in him for the sake of torture.
So always remember that "the wish of god" is always within the context of his names & characteristics. So your argument is true ; nobody can stop god if he wanted to torture you forever.. but his characteristics don't match with such path.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 4:03 pm by paulpablo.)
Quote:But the ones who are happy , are in heaven, dwelling it as long as the earth & the skies last, except what god have wished unstoppable bestowal
the earth and the skies according to science havent been here forever and wont last forever, so therefore how could heaven be forever? " except what god have wished unstoppable bestowal" doesnt make sense in english so i cant really comment on the last part. I couldnt even guess what it means.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 4:41 pm
(February 25, 2013 at 4:02 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Quote:But the ones who are happy , are in heaven, dwelling it as long as the earth & the skies last, except what god have wished unstoppable bestowal
the earth and the skies according to science havent been here forever and wont last forever, so therefore how could heaven be forever? " except what god have wished unstoppable bestowal" doesnt make sense in english so i cant really comment on the last part. I couldnt even guess what it means.
Perhaps what it means is that Allah could give Johnny Holmes a run for his money...
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 4:53 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 5:22 pm by WinterHold.)
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Curiously, in christianity there's a heretical work called the Apocalypse of Peter, which describes the christian hell as temporary as well. The short version is that when Jesus supposedly rose again after being crucified, and came back to his apostles, he told Peter about the tortures he saw in hell (which incidentally, became the foundation for the poem "The Inferno" by Dante), and described how those in hell will eventually be saved and risen up to heaven by the prayers of the blessed.
So it transpires that even if we do go to hell, those who go to heaven will pray us up to heaven.
If you believe it, question it. If you question it, get an answer. If you have an answer, does that answer satisfy reality? Does it satisfy you? Probably not. For no one else will agree with you, not really.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 7:12 pm
no my point is that the quote says they will dwell in heaven for as long as the earth and sky last, which isnt forever, so if people arent in heaven forever and arent in hell forever then where are they?
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 7:28 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 7:38 pm by WinterHold.)
(February 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Question Mark Wrote: Curiously, in christianity there's a heretical work called the Apocalypse of Peter, which describes the christian hell as temporary as well. The short version is that when Jesus supposedly rose again after being crucified, and came back to his apostles, he told Peter about the tortures he saw in hell (which incidentally, became the foundation for the poem "The Inferno" by Dante), and described how those in hell will eventually be saved and risen up to heaven by the prayers of the blessed.
So it transpires that even if we do go to hell, those who go to heaven will pray us up to heaven.
That's very interesting.. I didn't know that before.
But I think "it is a long time". If this "red giant" theory is correct, then people will stay in that red giant until it cools down..
Something might also explain "inhale/exhale" verse, which might point to that also..but that's some long long time, it does look like eternity !
(February 25, 2013 at 7:12 pm)paulpablo Wrote: no my point is that the quote says they will dwell in heaven for as long as the earth and sky last, which isnt forever, so if people arent in heaven forever and arent in hell forever then where are they?
Aha, I got your point.
The wish of god -paulpablo- was explained after the word "last". As I mentioned before, in heaven, the wish is followed by "unstoppable bestowal" ; the wish was enveloped inside the unstoppable bestowal.
Just like saying in English : "I checked all shops except that one ; sportswear aren't my thing".
I hope it would get the meaning to you ; you'll surely understand that the shop is a sports shop, and the person didn't check it out because he doesn't like sportswear.
This is not used in english -this style-, but it's widespread in the Quran.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 7:40 pm
Someone who first accepts an infinitely knowing being exists, and then believe that being created an eternal Hell for those it judges worthy, have already condemned themselves to the masochistic worship of a sadistic invisible fiction.
After that, there's no room for reason to ever change a thing about it.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 7:56 pm by WinterHold.)
(February 25, 2013 at 7:40 pm)Nobody Wrote: Someone who first accepts an infinitely knowing being exists, and then believe that being created an eternal Hell for those it judges worthy, have already condemned themselves to the masochistic worship of a sadistic invisible fiction.
After that, there's no room for reason to ever change a thing about it.
The story is very long. We just don't worship a sadestic figure without a reason  the whole story of creation, the existence of humans on earth & everything else makes sense.. with hell being "a star" that might cool down & vanish makes the story of Islam stronger..
Especially if hell was a star. You should check that out, because no other religion was able to make sense about these events.
God doesn't torture those people because he's evil. God is just ; he doesn't play games. One of the rules he put in this universe is "gratitude" ; which is pure justice.
I love my mother because she carried me for months, fed me, raised me, taught me. That's why the right thing to do is thank her, do what she asks at least.. it's justice ; she deserves it.
The same with god. If hell was a star, simply god is telling people who didn't believe in him or in heaven : you didn't show your gratitude.. I shouldn't show mine.. meet your fate. Believe in this physical world only ; and you would stay in it while it's consuming itself -which is a natural phenomena- that happened many many times.
More like -you will get what you believe in-.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 7:57 pm by paulpablo.)
ok so we have a hell where people dwell there for as long as there is an earth and sky, and we have a heaven which people will dwell in for as long as there is earth and sky with the exception of what?
so theres a heaven which people dwell in for as long as the earth and sky exist except what allah have wished, what does that mean?
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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