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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:00 pm
(March 8, 2013 at 10:45 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (March 8, 2013 at 10:37 pm)catfish Wrote: Yet you object if she doesn't want a life with a son (or daughter)???
What needs to be explained, apparently, is that disapproving is not the same as objecting. I can disapprove of something without demanding that it be outright banned, as I stated above. What is the point you're trying to get at, here? Where is the contradiction you're trying to show?
Definition of OBJECTION
1: an act of objecting
2a : a reason or argument presented in opposition b : a feeling or expression of disapproval
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:02 pm
(March 8, 2013 at 11:00 pm)catfish Wrote: Definition of OBJECTION
1: an act of objecting
2a : a reason or argument presented in opposition b : a feeling or expression of disapproval
So maybe answer the question. The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be attempting to point out hypocrisy where none exists. Why else would you be harping on this point so much?
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:07 pm
(March 8, 2013 at 10:15 pm)catfish Wrote: Maybe I should ask you guys what are morally acceptable reasons to abort?
I agree with when there's the possibility of danger to the mother and in cases of rape, but what other "morally acceptable" reasons can you think of?
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That it would turn out like you.
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm
(This post was last modified: March 8, 2013 at 11:11 pm by catfish.)
(March 8, 2013 at 11:02 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (March 8, 2013 at 11:00 pm)catfish Wrote: Definition of OBJECTION
1: an act of objecting
2a : a reason or argument presented in opposition b : a feeling or expression of disapproval
So maybe answer the question. The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be attempting to point out hypocrisy where none exists. Why else would you be harping on this point so much?
Because you guys seem to have a priority of morals which seem to contradict. Life is life and you guys seem to have no problem allowing someone to extinguish it yet voice an objection to a person's reason why.
If an undeveloped child means nothing to you, why would someone's choice matter?
At what age of developement do you think it's morally wrong to abort?
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(March 8, 2013 at 11:07 pm)Shell B Wrote: (March 8, 2013 at 10:15 pm)catfish Wrote: Maybe I should ask you guys what are morally acceptable reasons to abort?
I agree with when there's the possibility of danger to the mother and in cases of rape, but what other "morally acceptable" reasons can you think of?
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That it would turn out like you. You forgot to call me "fucktwat" or whatever it was... 
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:22 pm
(This post was last modified: March 8, 2013 at 11:23 pm by genkaus.)
(March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm)catfish Wrote: Because you guys seem to have a priority of morals which seem to contradict. Life is life and you guys seem to have no problem allowing someone to extinguish it yet voice an objection to a person's reason why.
How are you not getting this? A free and autonomous life is prioritized over plain old survival. We can judge a person's reasons for an actions all we want, we can object to them, disapprove of them, call them immoral but as long as it does not infringe upon another free and autonomous life - we have no say in them.
(March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm)catfish Wrote: If an undeveloped child means nothing to you, why would someone's choice matter?
Because the person making the choice matters.
(March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm)catfish Wrote: At what age of developement do you think it's morally wrong to abort?
At the point where it can survive outside the mother's body and she need not hold the sole responsibility for its life if she so chooses.
(March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm)catfish Wrote: You forgot to call me "fucktwat" or whatever it was...
Kind of redundant at this point.
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:36 pm
"Hey! You got death penalty in abortion!"
"And you got abortion in death penalty!"
"That's right! Two terrible discussions that go worse together!"
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:43 pm
(March 8, 2013 at 11:22 pm)genkaus Wrote: (March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm)catfish Wrote: Because you guys seem to have a priority of morals which seem to contradict. Life is life and you guys seem to have no problem allowing someone to extinguish it yet voice an objection to a person's reason why.
How are you not getting this? A free and autonomous life is prioritized over plain old survival. We can judge a person's reasons for an actions all we want, we can object to them, disapprove of them, call them immoral but as long as it does not infringe upon another free and autonomous life - we have no say in them.
And this is what I object to... You define what is acceptable to abort, yet somehow don't realise that that "free and autonomous life" is the same life that started at conception.
Do you also object to life support?
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:48 pm
(This post was last modified: March 8, 2013 at 11:49 pm by Esquilax.)
(March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm)catfish Wrote: Because you guys seem to have a priority of morals which seem to contradict. Life is life and you guys seem to have no problem allowing someone to extinguish it yet voice an objection to a person's reason why.
If an undeveloped child means nothing to you, why would someone's choice matter?
I already told you why. Aborting based on gender reinforces this idea that there's a preferred or superior gender to be fostered, and a weaker one to be quashed. It relegates women- and let's face it, in this discussion we are talking about aborting girls- to some second class of life and elevates boys to being the only kind of child worth having.
Now, does that mean I'd support banning abortion made on the basis of gender? No. But it does mean I find it morally wrong and will use my own right to free speech to attempt to steer the conversation out of misogynistic waters.
I also find it interesting that over in Off Topic's homosexuality thread you're advocating choice and "making up your own mind," and yet here you seem to be against abortion... 
(March 8, 2013 at 11:43 pm)catfish Wrote: And this is what I object to... You define what is acceptable to abort, yet somehow don't realise that that "free and autonomous life" is the same life that started at conception.
Do you also object to life support?
Once again, that's your opinion, and it's not supported anywhere in medical science. Why should it carry any weight?
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 8, 2013 at 11:51 pm
(March 8, 2013 at 11:43 pm)catfish Wrote: And this is what I object to... You define what is acceptable to abort, yet somehow don't realise that that "free and autonomous life" is the same life that started at conception.
No, its not. Until it is born, that life neither free nor autonomous but completely dependent upon its host. Which is why its the host's choice whether to continue supporting its existence or not.
(March 8, 2013 at 11:43 pm)catfish Wrote: Do you also object to life support?
Why would I?
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RE: Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...
March 9, 2013 at 12:01 am
(March 8, 2013 at 11:48 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (March 8, 2013 at 11:43 pm)catfish Wrote: And this is what I object to... You define what is acceptable to abort, yet somehow don't realise that that "free and autonomous life" is the same life that started at conception.
Do you also object to life support?
Once again, that's your opinion, and it's not supported anywhere in medical science. Why should it carry any weight?
Seriously? You're arguing that it's not the same life?
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