Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...

[Minimalist]

But over all, I'm against it.

And are you going to support it until it is 18? Or are you simply willing to tell someone else what they have to do with their life?

We have lots of republicunt state legislatures who make abortion difficult but who then also try to kill welfare programs that these kids need. They seem to like fetuses right up until the minute they are born...and, of course, if they commit a crime they are perfectly willing to kill them then.

[Mystic]

And are you going to support it until it is 18?

Relevance? But I don't mind being taxed like everyone partially to support people who can't raise a baby.

Or are you simply willing to tell someone else what they have to do with their life?

No. This is a straw man.

We have lots of republicunt state legislatures who make abortion difficult but who then also try to kill welfare programs that these kids need.

I'm part of ACORN, I pay money every month in a cause for welfare programs and reforms to help low income people.

I'm not right wing. I'm very much towards the left as far as most things are concerned.

[Esquilax]

[Mystic]

I think we are talking about awareness in a different sense. I mean if the baby can experience things, it's aware of that thing. I don't mean sophisticated awareness.

As far as a wife's life in danger, personally, I would want to save her. But if she chooses to want the baby to be alive over her life, I wouldn't say she was being evil/unjust to herself. This is why I said it's a grey area.

[Esquilax]

I think we are talking about awareness in a different sense. I mean if the baby can experience things, it's aware of that thing. I don't mean sophisticated awareness.

Experience in what way? Because rocks experience things too, you know.

If you're talking about awareness in accordance with the human experience, then obviously the fetus doesn't gain any of that until its brain has developed. But if you're just talking about experience in the way that matter is present for things to happen around it, then... well, what doesn't count as a child by that definition?

[Mystic]

I don't know how to define it. Seems like we are playing semantics to justify killing babies.

[catfish]

I don't know how to define it. Seems like we are playing semantics to justify killing babies.

That's exactly what they're doing... Just don't do it for reasons they don't like, they'll call you immoral for that...

[genkaus]

I think we are talking about awareness in a different sense. I mean if the baby can experience things, it's aware of that thing. I don't mean sophisticated awareness.

And that view would be wrong. Capacity to experience something is not the same as being aware of it. Plants can experience things - as evidenced by their response to external stimuli - but we do not credit them with any sort of awareness.

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I don't know how to define it. Seems like we are playing semantics to justify killing babies.

If you don't know how to define it, then you are in no position to base your arguments on it. What is being justified here is that what we are killing are not in fact babies.

[catfish]

I don't know how to define it. Seems like we are playing semantics to justify killing babies.

If you don't know how to define it, then you are in no position to base your arguments on it. What is being justified here is that what we are killing are not in fact babies.

Bull fucking SHIT! Same DNA, same original lifeforce, same individual living being. Just because you require it to reach a certain age of development doesn't change this fact. (really, please argue that it isn't the same being)

A seed is considered a plant by the government here in the US, so an ebryo, fetus, "a bunch of fucking cells" deserves a higher standard than we (you) allow a human being.

You are messed up if you consider sexism more reprehensible than killing human life...
.

[RonaldReagansGhost666]

I'm an atheist who is not supportive of the death penalty, regardless of the severity of the convicted's crime. My opinion about this is based off of the idea that "an eye for an eye" is an ancient and barbaric method of punishment that was used as a way to serve primitive judicial systems. As for induced abortion, I'm somewhat iffy on the subject.