Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...

[Esquilax]

Catfish, Knight, it's good to see you both falling back on appeals to emotion rather than facts. Just shows how weak your position truly is.

[catfish]

Catfish, Knight, it's good to see you both falling back on appeals to emotion rather than facts. Just shows how weak your position truly is.

LOL!
Prove that it's not what I say it is.
You position is the subjective one, mine is based on science.
.

[RonaldReagansGhost666]

If you don't know how to define it, then you are in no position to base your arguments on it. What is being justified here is that what we are killing are not in fact babies.

Bull fucking SHIT! Same DNA, same original lifeforce, same individual living being. Just because you require it to reach a certain age of development doesn't change this fact. (really, please argue that it isn't the same being)

A seed is considered a plant by the government here in the US, so an ebryo, fetus, "a bunch of fucking cells" deserves a higher standard than we (you) allow a human being.

You are messed up if you consider sexism more reprehensible than killing human life...
.

The embryo is a potential human, much like the the egg is a potential chicken, and the seed is a potential plant.

[Psykhronic]

The US government defines seeds as plants? Where? Not entirely doubting it, but for example, this USDA site has "fruits, plants, and plant products" listed and has a section that says "Plants and Seeds for Planting"

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/...t_imports/

[Esquilax]

Catfish, Knight, it's good to see you both falling back on appeals to emotion rather than facts. Just shows how weak your position truly is.

LOL!
Prove that it's not what I say it is.
You position is the subjective one, mine is based on science.
.

It's up to you to prove your position, not me. If it's based on science, it should be easy for you.

Though notably, of the two of us, I'm the only one actually posting scientific material. You're just bleating about killing babies.

Which of us has the subjective position, again? Do I need to go back and repost that picture of an embryo from a few pages back?

[genkaus]

Bull fucking SHIT! Same DNA, same original lifeforce, same individual living being. Just because you require it to reach a certain age of development doesn't change this fact. (really, please argue that it isn't the same being)

Not the same life-force since it relies on that of the mother and not the same individual without the individual autonomy. So no - not the same being at all.

A seed is considered a plant by the government here in the US, so an ebryo, fetus, "a bunch of fucking cells" deserves a higher standard than we (you) allow a human being.

No, it deserves a lower standard. A seed - once formed - can survive and grow without relying upon the plant that produced it. The embryo, fetus, "bunch of fucking cells" - cannot.

You are messed up if you consider sexism more reprehensible than killing human life...

I don't. But then we are not talking about a human life here.

---

LOL!
Prove that it's not what I say it is.
You position is the subjective one, mine is based on science.

Good one. Tell me another.

[catfish]

The US government defines seeds as plants? Where? Not entirely doubting it, but for example, this USDA site has "fruits, plants, and plant products" listed and has a section that says "Plants and Seeds for Planting"

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/...t_imports/

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/brs/pdf/PlantProtAct2000.pdf

(13) Plant
The term ‘‘plant’’ means any plant (including
any plant part) for or capable of propagation,
including a tree, a tissue culture, a
plantlet culture, pollen, a shrub, a vine, a cutting,
a graft, a scion, a bud, a bulb, a root, and
a seed.

A google search for "is a seed a plant?"
.

[genkaus]

The US government defines seeds as plants? Where? Not entirely doubting it, but for example, this USDA site has "fruits, plants, and plant products" listed and has a section that says "Plants and Seeds for Planting"

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/...t_imports/

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/brs/pdf/PlantProtAct2000.pdf

(13) Plant
The term ‘‘plant’’ means any plant (including
any plant part) for or capable of propagation,
including a tree, a tissue culture, a
plantlet culture, pollen, a shrub, a vine, a cutting,
a graft, a scion, a bud, a bulb, a root, and
a seed.

A google search for "is a seed a plant?"
.

You do realize that by this analogy the definition of human would include a sperm, an egg, a zygote, stem cells or any tissue culture that can be reverse engineered to make a clone - which means any part of human body? Remember that the next time you get a haircut.

[Psykhronic]

Not only this, but that link has a definition for "person" which includes corporations, which is something debated to this day and is not conclusively decided. Now I do not think you are necessarily trying to imply this, but the US gov is not the be all end all of definitions. That is simply what they use for a definition when crafting certain laws and such.

[catfish]

Bull fucking SHIT! Same DNA, same original lifeforce, same individual living being. Just because you require it to reach a certain age of development doesn't change this fact. (really, please argue that it isn't the same being)

Not the same life-force since it relies on that of the mother and not the same individual without the individual autonomy. So no - not the same being at all.

All your doing is harping on autonomy. Accept science, no mater what the stage of developement is, it's the same DNA and organism that was formed at fetilization. If you want to harp on autonomy, then you must recognise that even a new-born still relies on others for it's survival.

A seed is considered a plant by the government here in the US, so an ebryo, fetus, "a bunch of fucking cells" deserves a higher standard than we (you) allow a human being.

No, it deserves a lower standard. A seed - once formed - can survive and grow without relying upon the plant that produced it. The embryo, fetus, "bunch of fucking cells" - cannot.

A seed has enough energy from it's parent that it can live for several days with nothing once it's germinated.
Whether or not an embryo, fetus, or a "bunch of fucking cells" can survive on it's own is irrelevant to fact that it is an independant living organism. A newborn cannot survive on it's own once outside the womb, nor can a coma patient on life support. All you're doing is making an excuse for taking human life when the only difference in that lifeform is it's age and abilities.

You are messed up if you consider sexism more reprehensible than killing human life...

I don't. But then we are not talking about a human life here.

Says you...