The concept of Hell discourages belief

[The Reality Salesman01]

I am a father. My son means everything to me. There are times that his actions require punishment, but ultimately, the lesson he learns from the punishment is what is important. I want him to grow into a better person, a better man. My love for him is unconditional. Everything I do, I do to support him and his success.

According to Christianity, God is the supposed Heavenly Father. His love, compassion and dedication for US is something that we could never truely comprehend, but the very reason I feel the way I do about my son, is because I was created in his image. According to Christianity, it is God to which all morality, and empathy can be attributed.

If my son disobeys me, he is punished. But, ultimately if he doesn't get a chance to display new learned behavior, I will never know whether I have suceeded as a parent in teaching my son what is important. There is no amount of chances before I will give up. There is no limit to my love for him. If he were ever in need of something and it was within my ability to provide it, I would. I would risk my own safety and lay my own life out for his.

If ultimately, the life we choose differs from that which The Bible outlines as the standard, and obviously there are millions of different interpretations of what that standard is, then God (Heavenly Father ) invokes his punishment to his children...

This punishment is described as unimaginable torture. It says "You will pray for death but death will not find you", this is an eternal and definite punishment from which there will not be a chance for salvation or rescue. God will cast you away land turn his back to you because to HIM you have already done so to him.

My questions are many with comprehending these concepts.

#1 If...
a.)God is all loving and his compassion for his children surpasses that of my own comprehension for compassion.

b.) I have compassion for my son that knows no bounds. It would be impossible for me to allow my son a fate of eternal suffering for any reason.

c.) God's compassion has limits to what he will accept before he turns his back to you and allows you; in fact sentences you to a fate of eternal suffering.

If A is true, C cannot nor B can be true.
B is true and C is contingent on accepting A, therefore A must be false.

#2
a.) God is all powerful, and all loving. There is nothing he cannot do or would not do for us.

b.) If you do not accept Jesus Christ into your heart as your lord and savior under your own free will, which God has granted you the opportunity to do, you will be eternally sentenced to pain and suffering beyond any earthly imaginable experience.

c.) God will not save you from this outcome, as you have decided under previous circumstances that your opinion of him and level of devotion was different than the one God wanted you to have.

If A is True, C cannot be true. Both C and B are contingent on accepting A, therefore all are false.

If a punishment is designed to teach a lesson, Hell is not such a thing. If I don't want my son to steal, killing him will not bring out better behavior. These concepts are self-contradicting and traits of a narcissistic and petty person that would not logically applied to a devine superior being of unimaginable power. These aren't even acceptable traits of a person in a position of power on earth! It's astounding that this can be so widely and blindly accepted as truth.

Lastly, and I would be suprised if anyone actually made it this far in my rant...

1) If God designed my ability to reason.

2) Then is is that ability to reason that has led me to a conclusion that God is not real.

3) My inconclusive results for God driven by my God-given ability to reason, have led me to an ideology that God issues sentences in Hell for.

Therefore conclusively: God sentences people to hell for doing exactly what he designed them to do.

This makes no more sense than Ford destroying their mini-van products because at the test-drive,they could not fly or produce crisp $100 bills. If something you design produces different results than you expected, it is becuase your design was flawed, therefore the only person you can blame is you!

[The Grand Nudger]

Some would tell you that there is no hell, others that hell is temporary, others still would fold their arms and say "whatcha gonna do abut it, neener neener!"

The only thing they have in common, is that they're all assholes.

[LastPoet]

They will come with the free will bullshit in 3... 2... 1...

Its all about a deep anxiety that every human has, the need to know that those that wronged you shall face grievous consequence. IMO the hell concept has come to keep the sheep in line, nothing like strinking into them a cruel nagging fear of eternal suffering so that they keep going to church and keep doing their offerings.

You should question to yourself, is there anything a child of yours could do that warranted the puni9shment of sending them into the basement to suffer eternal torture? My answer is no and that makes me more moral than yaweh or whatever they call the christian god.

[Tonus]

The JW explanation seemed sensible to me: hell is just the common grave of mankind. "Going to hell" simply meant dying, entering a state akin to unconsciousness. That fit in with the concept that "the wages of sin is death." If you turn from god and never find a way to reconcile, you die and that's that. The concept of such an over-the-top punishment for everything from being Hitler to occasionally jerking off simply doesn't compute.

Of course, the JW concept isn't suitably terrifying, which might be one of the many reasons that they have so much trouble retaining converts. Hellfire just sounds so damned sexy!

[The Grand Nudger]

You don't think that death is suitably terrifying compared to the carrot of eternal life? Its equally as cruel and equally as unjustified. No torture is required to call this faery out for the jailor and despot that people seem to believe him to be.

[LastPoet]

Hellfire just sounds so damned sexy!

Its also the reverse of the coin. We had members joining here that although considered themselves atheists, still were terrified they might be wrong and end up suffering forever (pascal's wager).

Some modern moderate catholics these days say that "Hell is being apart from god". If that is true, I couldn't be further apart from the fairy tale, still, I see no fire or brimstone, Just normal hardships of mere mortals.

In a way, if atheists are bound to hell, all I can say is that you'll be in good company, I'm a great party guy!

ETA: Plus, we can make a barbecue without having to light the fire, although we might have a problem keeping beer cold

[catfish]

Who's willing to debate the definition of aeonian?
.

[Tonus]

You don't think that death is suitably terrifying compared to the carrot of eternal life? Its equally as cruel and equally as unjustified. No torture is required to call this faery out for the jailor and despot that people seem to believe him to be.

Well, yeah... but from an apologist's standpoint, it's much easier to go with the concept of death as an end ("a just god") versus death leading to eternal suffering (an unimaginably cruel god). Once I freed myself from religious bonds, the former took on a different light. The latter remains as batshit insane as it ever did.

[Drich]

I am a father. My son means everything to me. There are times that his actions require punishment, but ultimately, the lesson he learns from the punishment is what is important. I want him to grow into a better person, a better man. My love for him is unconditional. Everything I do, I do to support him and his success.

What if he does not want your help in any way shape or form? What if from the time he could speak he made it clear he did not like you or your authority over him? Would you force him to accept you and what you offered? Would you force Him to stay in your house even if he was old enough to leave?

According to Christianity, God is the supposed Heavenly Father. His love, compassion and dedication for US is something that we could never truly comprehend, but the very reason I feel the way I do about my son, is because I was created in his image. According to Christianity, it is God to which all morality, and empathy can be attributed.

With one condition, God respects his children enough to allow them to pick their own directions in this life and the next.

If my son disobeys me, he is punished. But, ultimately if he doesn't get a chance to display new learned behavior, I will never know whether I have succeeded as a parent in teaching my son what is important. There is no amount of chances before I will give up. There is no limit to my love for him. If he were ever in need of something and it was within my ability to provide it, I would. I would risk my own safety and lay my own life out for his.

So long as he lives right? How does that differ from what God has done for us through the atonement Christ offers?

If ultimately, the life we choose differs from that which The Bible outlines as the standard, and obviously there are millions of different interpretations of what that standard is, then God (Heavenly Father ) invokes his punishment to his children...

Actually no, that is not a biblical percept. I will agree most religions teach this but they do so outside of what Christ Himself taught. Do you know of the parable of the talents in Mat 25:14-30? Basically it says God will only hold us responsible to what he has given us. If we are faithful we will be given more if we are not the what we have will be taken from us and given to someone else. This means if we do not have to understand the bible like a Billy gram. All we must do is do the best we can with what God gave us. Not the best as in what you tell someone is your best, but your best as in all your heart, mind spirit and strength, and no matter what your finished product, God will judge you favorably according to this parable.

This punishment is described as unimaginable torture. It says "You will pray for death but death will not find you", this is an eternal and definite punishment from which there will not be a chance for salvation or rescue. God will cast you away land turn his back to you because to HIM you have already done so to him.

I looked and I don't think that is an actual bible quote. Do you have book chapter and verse?

My questions are many with comprehending these concepts.

#1 If...
a.)God is all loving and his compassion for his children surpasses that of my own comprehension for compassion.

b.) I have compassion for my son that knows no bounds. It would be impossible for me to allow my son a fate of eternal suffering for any reason.

What if your son chooses that fate over spending an eternity with you?
The problem I see is that you assume that all children love their fathers their whole lives. wait till you boys hit 16 and decide to do the opposite of what you would have them do for no other reason then because it would please you that they do what they were asked.
Now imagine this rebellion in the scope of eternity. I think given enough time this would make reasons for wars..

c.) God's compassion has limits to what he will accept before he turns his back to you and allows you; in fact sentences you to a fate of eternal suffering.

If A is true, C cannot nor B can be true.
B is true and C is contingent on accepting A, therefore A must be false.

I did a thread on this titled God does not love you.. (the way you think He does.) In Short I look at the Greek word that gets translated to the word love in the English. It is Agape. This Agape form of Love is indeed conditional. It is not a love based on emotion but Choice. In that we must choose to accept God's offer of love. Once we do then we will experience that Boundless love you are describing. Agape is not a generic all encompassing love that knows no bounds for everyone in general. Agape is indeed conditional and has a price tag on it. In order for God to offer it it cost Him His only Son. In order for us to receive it we must acknowledge and accept what it cost God to offer it. To me this does not sound unreasonable.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-12703.html

#2
a.) God is all powerful, and all loving. There is nothing he cannot do or would not do for us.

Again, He is not the modern day English understanding of all loving. He is the Koine Greek understanding of Agape. To understand God is to seek Him on His terms and not to try and force God to fit our understandings. If we do what you have done we build a strawman fallicy and lable it god. when our strawman fails to live up to or is not consistent with the God of the bible our reaction is to say God does not exist, because there is a fatal flaw in our strawman version of God, rather than admit we never sought the God of the bible to begin with.

b.) If you do not accept Jesus Christ into your heart as your lord and savior under your own free will, which God has granted you the opportunity to do, you will be eternally sentenced to pain and suffering beyond any earthly imaginable experience.

Why?

c.) God will not save you from this outcome, as you have decided under previous circumstances that your opinion of him and level of devotion was different than the one God wanted you to have.

Again have you asked yourself why? What fundamental principle is being violated when God forces someone to spend an eternity serving Him?

If a punishment is designed to teach a lesson, Hell is not such a thing. If I don't want my son to steal, killing him will not bring out better behavior. These concepts are self-contradicting and traits of a narcissistic and petty person that would not logically applied to a Devine superior being of unimaginable power. These aren't even acceptable traits of a person in a position of power on earth! It's astounding that this can be so widely and blindly accepted as truth.

Which is what this life is all about. To see if you can eternally serve Not the God you have constructed for yourself, but the God of the bible for all of eternity. If yes then simply accept the redemption offered, if no then stay your course and know you will be eternally separated from the God you want nothing to do with..

Someone wrote it is better to burn in hell than to serve in heaven.

Lastly, and I would be surprised if anyone actually made it this far in my rant...

If you write it, someone will read it.

1) If God designed my ability to reason.

2) Then is is that ability to reason that has led me to a conclusion that God is not real.

God also gave me the ability to reason, and I would conclude, that Your idea of God is not real. That's not to say a God does not exist beyond what your god should look like.

3) My inconclusive results for God driven by my God-given ability to reason, have led me to an ideology that God issues sentences in Hell for.

Therefore conclusively: God sentences people to hell for doing exactly what he designed them to do.

Yes (Rythm would read neener neener here.) Yes, in that God designed us to choose whether or not we want to spend an eternity serving Him or eternally separated from Him. and Yes God will hold us to our choices for eternity.

This makes no more sense than Ford destroying their mini-van products because at the test-drive,they could not fly or produce crisp $100 bills. If something you design produces different results than you expected, it is because your design was flawed, therefore the only person you can blame is you!

This would be an accurate analogy save for one minor detail. God offers atonement. If God did not offer atonement or some way for one to redeem himself then you would be 100% correct. But because atonement for sins was offered then the destruction of your 'mini van' is because you chose to have it destroyed, and God/ford is simply facilitating what you wanted to do.

Here is a thread I started explaining what I know of Hell.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-15622.html

[John V]

@ OP:

First problem is with your premise that all people are God's children. Biblically this isn't the case:

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."

Paul alsr refers to our adoption as God's children several times, indicating that we are not born as children.

So, your arguments based on proper treatment of children are groundless.