Is belief really a choice?

[Silver]

Did you choose to believe what you believe about our ability to choose our beliefs -ad infinutum

In high school, I chose to attend church with my friend and become a pentecostal christian. Later in life, i chose to be an agnostic. Then I chose to be a Wiccan. Then I chose to be an atheist. I believe people choose whether or not to believe in the supernatural.

What triggers that, and precisely what "that" is -is precisely the point of contention.

When I stated that it could be any number of factors, I was referring to outside environmental sources such as the influence of friends, the media, teachers, or even an internet forum.

[The Grand Nudger]

Seems like a snake eating it's tail. Beliefs about beliefs being the story behind beliefs about beliefs.

Your experience seems to have involved alot of these choices - can you elaborate on some of them?

[thesummerqueen]

Then I chose to be a Wiccan.

What about this: I chose to research Wicca, and even tried as much ritual or 'magic' as I could at home, in solitary. No covens. I couldn't muster up belief, no matter what I tried. I went into it thinking I would feel something, gain some sort of knowledge. I did - mostly of mythology, but felt nothing other than that. That's why I always quote Lewis Black. "I was born and raised Jewish, and when that didn't work out I went to some of the others and said '...eh...fuck it.'"

[The Grand Nudger]

lol, Summer....

-
CORSO: What if I find your copy's a forgery?

BALKAN stares at him coldly for a moment.

BALKAN: It's quite on the cards.

CORSO seems mildly surprised. He looks at the book again,
'listens' to the quality of the paper by putting his ear to the
pages and riffling them with his thumb.

CORSO: Really? It doesn't appear to be. Even the paper sounds
kosher.

BALKAN: Even so. There may be something wrong with it.

CORSO continues to examine the book. He smiles ironically.

CORSO: You mean the Devil won't show up?
-

[thesummerqueen]

Ahahahaha. An incredibly bad, but incredibly underrated Depp movie. Love it.

[Silver]

can you elaborate on some of them?

What I assume you are seeking is whether I wholeheartedly put myself into the religion, its practices, and gave my heart completely over to what I was believing. The answer to that would be yes.

I was quite the fundamentalist christian, which is why I believe I am so militant as an atheist, and I believed that prayer worked and that there was a god in the sky who listened and answered my prayers. Not that any of them were answered, but I blindly informed myself that no answer was still an answer. I attended church and prayer meetings near the flag pole before school started, I read the bible all the time and for a while I actually believed what was written in it was the truth.

As a Wiccan I was not militant for the fact that the religion believes in karma and the threefold law of harming none unless that harm be returned upon me threefold. I studied spells and wore pentacle pendants, I performed rituals to the goddess, created my own Book of Shadows, and I believed in the goddess just as much as I had previously believed in the christian god. I suppose I chose Wicca because of the female aspect of the religion where the believer could choose whether or not to believe in the pagan male gods. I purposefully chose to only believe in the goddess due to my, at the time, new found dislike for the christian god.

When I began questioning why I was even choosing to believe in religion, when obviously none of it was real as far as prayer or spells were concerned, I chose to become an agnostic and then slowly made my way toward being an atheist simply by shedding those beliefs I had chosen as a theist.

[fr0d0]

I don't think so.
It seems anybody that doesn't believe says that belief isn't a choice.
Anybody that does believe seems to tell me that they choose to believe and atheists choose not to believe.

I find this patently absurd. Is it just me that seems to find this correlation?

I kinda agree.

I would say most people don't choose not to believe. It's simply a default position.

I think you have to choose to believe. That is, i think that's mandatory in my faith.

I personally choose to disbelieve as a believing Christian once. But that's not common I think.

Good point though. Makes it clearer why some atheists have been incredulous about the choice question.

[Mystic]

I thought about a while Rhythm, and I will answer from my belief, yes "choosing to believe a person can't fly" is possible and not only possible, it seems to me that is what happens.

On shiachat, there is a member, who was raised as a secular Christian, then became a Muslim for very short while, then Agnostic Deist, then became Agnostic Atheist, and was very rational, questioned everything...but then with various factors pulling him to Islam, and despite reading problems in Quran that are objectively proven to be problem, etc, he ended up believing in Islam. Now he believes in Mohammad who split the moon, rode to heaven, Imams after who did miracles, and a man that is living for over a thousand years...all with no real evidence....that's not all too different from then from believing he can fly, in fact, hadiths state Imams can fly..I dunno if he believes in that or came across those hadiths, but you get the point.

So it's a choice to remain rational and stick to rational thought from my experience.

It's a choice you don't follow new Age people going on about energy and stuff like that. It's a choice my friend. And important one as well.

[The Grand Nudger]

What I assume you are seeking is whether I wholeheartedly put myself into the religion, its practices, and gave my heart completely over to what I was believing. The answer to that would be yes.

No, not at all, just looking for the choice. But I find it fascinating that you put your all into these various religions.

I was quite the fundamentalist christian, which is why I believe I am so militant as an atheist, and I believed that prayer worked and that there was a god in the sky who listened and answered my prayers. Not that any of them were answered, but I blindly informed myself that no answer was still an answer. I attended church and prayer meetings near the flag pole before school started, I read the bible all the time and for a while I actually believed what was written in it was the truth.

Okay....and what happened to that belief? (also, where did it come from?)

As a Wiccan I was not militant for the fact that the religion believes in karma and the threefold law of harming none unless that harm be returned upon me threefold. I studied spells and wore pentacle pendants, I performed rituals to the goddess, created my own Book of Shadows, and I believed in the goddess just as much as I had previously believed in the christian god. I suppose I chose Wicca because of the female aspect of the religion where the believer could choose whether or not to believe in the pagan male gods. I purposefully chose to only believe in the goddess due to my, at the time, new found dislike for the christian god.

Ah wicca, how I miss you(r girls). Hehehehe.

When I began questioning why I was even choosing to believe in religion, when obviously none of it was real as far as prayer or spells were concerned, I chose to become an agnostic and then slowly made my way toward being an atheist simply by shedding those beliefs I had chosen as a theist.

Well ffs man....you're asserting what I was hoping you would help to establish. In that moment when you felt that it was -obvious that none of it was real- could you have chosen to believe anyway? Did you choose to become an agnostic, or did you discover that somewhere along the way you had become one?

[Silver]

I would say most people don't choose not to believe. It's simply a default position.

I can somewhat understand this position, but in some cases it is simply not true. Take for instance someone who was raised into a belief system, and then as an adult the individual chooses to shed his theism for atheism. He chose to not believe in the process of choosing to shed his theism.