Islam or Atheism

[Muslim Scholar]

How about when God said in the Quran that the Universe is expanding
or telling about exact incidents in the future

If you look to the amount of scientific facts and future prediction in Quran, it cannot be fabricated (specially by Mohamed)

Translations of the Qu'ran prior to the discovery of the universe's expansion had quite different wording. Until the discovery, the verses were interpreted differently. Even if the Qu'ran was trying to convey that the universe was expanding, it failed in that as Muslims had nothing to say about an expanding universe until Western science discovered that was the case. A prediction that only makes sense in retrospect wasn't really a prediction at all.

Of course and this is the miracle in it
The exact translate of the verses will say
We created the heaven with power and we are expanding/widing it
At that time no one knew or understood about that, they will pick any close meaning and interpret Quran accordingly
It is only when science discovers it, we will know that Quran talked about it, that is why it will continue in the future as well

A similar example is this verses
2. The Romans have been defeated.

3. In the nearest land (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious.

4. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after (these events) is only with Allâh, (before the defeat of the Romans by the Persians, and after the defeat of the Persians by the Romans). And on that Day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allâh to the Romans against the Persians) -

It has two miracles, first predicting the future (at that time) by telling that the Romans/bezentians will defeat the Persians
The second one, is telling that the battle field is the undermost land
The exact translation is "The Undermost Land" for a person at that time, this doesn't mean anything so they translated by "Nearby land"
Just recently science discovered that the battlefield is the absolute lowest point on earth (dry land)

Can you explain this?

[Cato]

Can you explain this?

Yes, I can. Your stupid God is as pig dick ignorant of history as he is of geometry. Deity or not, one cannot simply fortell of things that have already transpired. Your only out is to radically redefine what it is to be Roman.

[Muslim Scholar]

Can you explain this?

Yes, I can. Your stupid God is as pig dick ignorant of history as he is of geometry. Deity or not, one cannot simply fortell of things that have already transpired. Your only out is to radically redefine what it is to be Roman.

You are a typical stereotype exactly like Christians
Defending a false religion

Keep saying "There is no God, There is no God, ......"
Same like a Christian would say "Jesus saves,..............."
You may believe it at the end

[paulpablo]

Translations of the Qu'ran prior to the discovery of the universe's expansion had quite different wording. Until the discovery, the verses were interpreted differently. Even if the Qu'ran was trying to convey that the universe was expanding, it failed in that as Muslims had nothing to say about an expanding universe until Western science discovered that was the case. A prediction that only makes sense in retrospect wasn't really a prediction at all.

Of course and this is the miracle in it
The exact translate of the verses will say
We created the heaven with power and we are expanding/widing it
At that time no one knew or understood about that, they will pick any close meaning and interpret Quran accordingly
It is only when science discovers it, we will know that Quran talked about it, that is why it will continue in the future as well

A similar example is this verses
2. The Romans have been defeated.

3. In the nearest land (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious.

4. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after (these events) is only with Allâh, (before the defeat of the Romans by the Persians, and after the defeat of the Persians by the Romans). And on that Day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allâh to the Romans against the Persians) -

It has two miracles, first predicting the future (at that time) by telling that the Romans/bezentians will defeat the Persians
The second one, is telling that the battle field is the undermost land
The exact translation is "The Undermost Land" for a person at that time, this doesn't mean anything so they translated by "Nearby land"
Just recently science discovered that the battlefield is the absolute lowest point on earth (dry land)

Can you explain this?

I already told you that the verse doesn't say the universe is expanding and gave you several examples, do you have problems with your eye sight?

---

I can't keep on explaining false miracle after false miracle it's a total waste of time because you will just keep typing more.

Firstly can you see how this verse IS NOT a miracle?

Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Shakir
And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Dr. Ghali
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.

Even the people who translated this did not use the word universe, or skies, they used the words heavens, do you believe the universe is heaven then?

Not even all the translations use the word expanding,

Just to make my possition clear on this I cannot not and will not take your claims seriously from this point onwards if you cannot admit that this is not a miracle.

[Muslim Scholar]

I already told you that the verse doesn't say the universe is expanding and gave you several examples, do you have problems with your eye sight?

---

I can't keep on explaining false miracle after false miracle it's a total waste of time because you will just keep typing more.

Firstly can you see how this verse IS NOT a miracle?

Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Shakir
And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Dr. Ghali
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.

Even the people who translated this did not use the word universe, or skies, they used the words heavens, do you believe the universe is heaven then?

Not even all the translations use the word expanding,

Just to make my possition clear on this I cannot not and will not take your claims seriously from this point onwards if you cannot admit that this is not a miracle.

You need to refer to the Arabic word used which is "The Sky"
Then the same word is used in other verses as heaven "He who created the seven heavens"

Then it is up to people to interpret it as Universe or sky

The universe from an Islamic view is the first heaven or sky
Even with the translations you brought it means the same, God created the sky or heaven or universe and he is expanding it
(The translation made it wide is wrong as the word in Arabic is used in continuous form)

[paulpablo]

I already told you that the verse doesn't say the universe is expanding and gave you several examples, do you have problems with your eye sight?

---

I can't keep on explaining false miracle after false miracle it's a total waste of time because you will just keep typing more.

Firstly can you see how this verse IS NOT a miracle?

Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Shakir
And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Dr. Ghali
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.

Even the people who translated this did not use the word universe, or skies, they used the words heavens, do you believe the universe is heaven then?

Not even all the translations use the word expanding,

Just to make my possition clear on this I cannot not and will not take your claims seriously from this point onwards if you cannot admit that this is not a miracle.

You need to refer to the Arabic word used which is "The Sky"
Then the same word is used in other verses as heaven "He who created the seven heavens"

Then it is up to people to interpret it as Universe or sky

The universe from an Islamic view is the first heaven or sky
Even with the translations you brought it means the same, God created the sky or heaven or universe and he is expanding it
(The translation made it wide is wrong as the word in Arabic is used in continuous form)

Again it's quite strange how 5 of the 6 translations actually don't back up your claim whatsoever. And I don't know arabic so I can't really argue with you on this point.

[LostLocke]

MS...

I'm still waiting for references to people who understood these "scientific miracles" before science actually discovered them.

Any one would do......

[justin]

I don't understand what you are asking? atheism is just the reject in a god or gods. when you say "better" what are meaning by better? more logical? than athiest tend to be logical when dealing with the acceptance or rejection to belief.

[pocaracas]

Yes, I can. Your stupid God is as pig dick ignorant of history as he is of geometry. Deity or not, one cannot simply fortell of things that have already transpired. Your only out is to radically redefine what it is to be Roman.

You are a typical stereotype exactly like Christians
Defending a false religion

Keep saying "There is no God, There is no God, ......"
Same like a Christian would say "Jesus saves,..............."
You may believe it at the end

So are we supposed to believe there is a god because some book contains a very vague notion of something that supposedly happened after the book was written?
Ever heard of Nostradamus? The miracle of Fátima and the 3 secrets?

Why should I accept your book over these guys'?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

My main objection is to this being labelled a 'big debate'.

I disregard any position that claims something without evidence to back it up. As atheism for me is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods, and Islam is a dogmatic often opressive religious ideology that can prescribe death and judgement for attempting to enact basic human rights, I'd say the 'choice' is somewhat obvious (at least to me).