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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 3:40 pm
So just to make sure I understand you...
Let's say, hypothetically, we discovered a nearby advanced civilization of alien beetles (you mentioned them in your example) and then another advanced civilization of alien bird-like beings, and then another advanced civilization of rock-beings, and then the dolphins on our world grow opposable thumbs and start making tools... this would still be "anthropomorph-centrism" to you?
And let's say, hypothetically, we discover God one day. Turns out God isn't a physical being at all but some sort of enigmatic form of ectoplasm and his existence takes up space in 15 different dimensions, this would still be "anthropomorphic" to you?
I'm not criticizing but asking for clarification on definitions here. Perhaps I've misunderstood these terms and what they mean.
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 3:49 pm
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2013 at 3:50 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Again your constant reference to civilization is why I keep hammering this home
-discovering a planet filled with a dazzling array of "beetles" - sans civ- isn't enough? We have such a planet right here.
-discovering a planet filled with a dazzling array of "birds" that have covered every jutting rock - squirreled into caves and even underwater -sans civ- isn't enough? We have such a planet right here.
Anthropomorphism is assigning some human attribute or motivation or behavior to a non human thing. To say a hurricane is "angry", to say the weeds "conspire"...or to say that evolution (or a god) "favors".
Anthropocentrism is the notion that human beings are a central or most important species - an assessment of reality through an exclusively human perspective. Now I understand that you feel that invoking some as yet undiscovered species might excuse you here - but it doesn't...because even when you invoke them you seem to insist that something like civilization (exclusively human- where are my ants and bacteria?) is going to be an indicator. That's why I offered the idea of a species that was incredibly advanced but had no need for a civilization.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm
(April 4, 2013 at 3:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Again your constant reference to civilization is why I keep hammering this home
-discovering a planet filled with a dazzling array of "beetles" - sans civ- isn't enough? We have such a planet right here.
-discovering a planet filled with a dazzling array of "birds" that have covered every jutting rock - squirreled into caves and even underwater -sans civ- isn't enough? We have such a planet right here.
No, it isn't enough. There's no higher reasoning, no art, no philosophy, no prospect of scientific advancement, no broader understanding of the cosmos.
Quote:Anthropomorphism is assigning some human attribute or motivation or behavior to a non human thing. To say a hurricane is "angry", to say the weeds "conspire"...or to say that evolution (or a god) "favors".
Pretty broad definition of "human attribute or motivation or behavior" since hypothetical non-human-but-advanced civilizations, whether they develop here on earth or are discovered elsewhere on other worlds, would still fall under that umbrella.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
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... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 4:18 pm
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: No, it isn't enough. There's no higher reasoning, no art, no philosophy, no prospect of scientific advancement, no broader understanding of the cosmos. This would be part and parcel with your/our anthropocentrism and how it affects your/our assumptions. Why wouldn't there be any higher reasoning, art, philosophy, prospects of scientific advancement, understanding of the cosmos? I understand that this is how -we- accomplished those things....but aren't we referencing alien life here? Maybe they handled that a different way? -And again- why is this the yardstick?
Quote:Pretty broad definition of "human attribute or motivation or behavior" since hypothetical non-human-but-advanced civilizations, whether they develop here on earth or are discovered elsewhere on other worlds, would still fall under that umbrella.
We're very broad, lol. Would they? Why? Anthropocentrism. But much more pressingly, why anthropomophize evolution or a god?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Quote:Maybe we just won the cosmic lottery.
Bingo.
Evolution has brought us to this.
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm
Wow, Brett Favre really went to shit after football.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2013 at 5:36 pm by DeistPaladin.)
(April 4, 2013 at 4:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Maybe we just won the cosmic lottery.
Bingo.
Evolution has brought us to this...
OK, point taken. I'll file that under contrary evidence to consider.
(April 4, 2013 at 4:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Why wouldn't there be any higher reasoning, art, philosophy, prospects of scientific advancement, understanding of the cosmos?
Um, because you said so. Or at least that's what I thought you were saying.
MY examples were non-human civilizations that HAD achieved these things, however alien to ours they might be.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 5:39 pm
I agree that this particular formulation of the argument from knowledge is shaky at best. These type of Christian apologists are overplaying the role of 'a priori' knowledge. I agree that the acquisition of knowledge requires initial certainties without which rational thought itself becomes impossible. But the immediate jump to God isn't warranted.
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 5:47 pm
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2013 at 5:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 4, 2013 at 5:34 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Um, because you said so. Or at least that's what I thought you were saying.
MY examples were non-human civilizations that HAD achieved these things, however alien to ours they might be. Nah, I just said they didn't have civilization, assuming that civilization is a requirement for any of these things is to paint the patina of human experience across the cosmos without explaining why you have done so (I've already offered my explanation for why you have done this)- all the while using that same human experience as the yardstick for evaluating the "awesomeness" of other forms of life that do or might exist - and what that would, at least to you, seem to imply.
Now, personally, I can't see why human civilization - or any civilization -would be a better example of favor than the plethora of beetles - or the range of birds...and I don't even have to leave this rock. If we wanted to point at anything as an example, all life on this planet serves that purpose equally as well. Trouble is - I'm not sure why we're looking for "favor" from an inhuman force (be it evolution or god).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Thoughts on next video...
April 4, 2013 at 5:58 pm
(April 4, 2013 at 5:47 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Now, personally, I can't see why human civilization - or any civilization -would be a better example of favor than the plethora of beetles - or the range of birds...and I don't even have to leave this rock. Well, maybe because to the best of our knowledge we are the only sentient species and have a unique responsibility because of that.
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