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AF Hall of Shame (Theist edition)
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H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: AF Hall of Shame (Theist edition)
May 18, 2013 at 2:35 am
(This post was last modified: May 18, 2013 at 2:36 am by fr0d0.)
 What does "each individual time simultaneously" mean? lol. I imagine a kind of touch interface where you scroll through time, and there's a date slider for longer leaps. Currently god is on android jelly bean :p  (May 18, 2013 at 2:35 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Well, you were asked how something could not exist to a timeless god at one point, and then begin to exist in another point. Your answer sort of made it seem as though god can just flip back and forth through points in time (this morning to last friday to a week from monday, for example) without remembering them once he'd moved on. Like flipping between binary states. My contention is that a timeless god would be seeing it all at once: a whole, rather than a disjointed collection of individual moments. That's what I meant: if he just sees them in sequence, isn't he just a grand kind of time traveler? 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!  (May 17, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Esquilax Wrote:(May 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: FNM: If God is timeless, what he sees is before the beginning, the beginning, the middle, the end and after the end. He sees all these as he chooses/his view isn't restricted by time. So yes, he can see all of these states and in any order that he chooses. I agree. in this view he is not "timeless" or "outside of time" but experiencing time in a different way. You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: AF Hall of Shame (Theist edition)
May 18, 2013 at 5:02 am
(This post was last modified: May 18, 2013 at 5:07 am by fr0d0.)
How can 'seeing everything at once' preclude seeing any detail as you choose? That's what I don't get from your objections.
It would seem that you are suggesting the whole of time from a timeless perspective is one big mush, with no macro lens. Timelessness isn't a constraint, it's the removal of a constraint. God gets to circumvent time and view it in any way he wishes: a singular point to all at once. (May 18, 2013 at 5:02 am)fr0d0 Wrote: How can 'seeing everything at once' preclude seeing any detail as you choose? That's what I don't get from your objections. But it is still part of time in this view so cannot be the "first cause". You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: AF Hall of Shame (Theist edition)
May 18, 2013 at 5:10 am
(This post was last modified: May 18, 2013 at 5:23 am by fr0d0.)
Different subject DBP.
@ Esq I don't think of God seeing each moment and forgetting the rest. It's what he's looking at that's bound by time. Sure the Christian perspective is that God continually fine tunes this reality like a galactic pilot. People make choices moving away and towards their perfect state, all roads ending up at that perfect state.
So god twiddles about the whole time.
A bit like The inquisitor in red dwarf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquis...Red_Dwarf) You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.  (May 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: FNM: If God is timeless, what he sees is before the beginning, the beginning, the middle, the end and after the end. He sees all these as he chooses/his view isn't restricted by time. So yes, he can see all of these states and in any order that he chooses. No wonder he's insane.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe (May 18, 2013 at 6:37 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: So god twiddles about the whole time. I think of Pilot (of Moya) in Farscape farscape.wikia.com/wiki/Pilot_(Moya)  (May 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: FNM: If God is timeless, what he sees is before the beginning, the beginning, the middle, the end and after the end. He sees all these as he chooses/his view isn't restricted by time. So yes, he can see all of these states and in any order that he chooses. Wait, so now god chooses when when to view things? You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you? Regardless, this brings me back to the original question. Why doesn't god just choose to view the whole experience before it happens, then skip the charade and go straight to the afterlife?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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