Atheism is not a belief!!

[Faith No More]

Atheism by definition is a lack of belief in God; however that lack of belief itself entails certain other beliefs, not all of which are fully justified.

Examples?

[Dawud]

But does anyone here believe that they are atheists.

I'm using the normal definition if believe - I.e. considering it to be true...

I like most people assume that people believe what they know...

So: do you believe you are atheist?

(Or do you change words' meanings to try to win arguments online?)

[Beardio1]

But does anyone here believe that they are atheists.

I'm using the normal definition if believe - I.e. considering it to be true...

I like most people assume that people believe what they know...

So: do you believe you are atheist?

(Or do you change words' meanings to try to win arguments online?)

Everyone knows atheism is a lack of beliefs. It's not even a belief in science, because in science everything can, in theory, be proved wrong (apart from mathematics, the one TRUE science) HOWEVER... Atheism is not a belief, it is a pursuit, a pursuit of knowledge, understanding and truth.

Also, consider this, Belief is only in something that is merely possible, with a sliver of doubt. For example, There is a cup on my desk. I don't BELIEVE there is a cup, because there is, it is undoubtable, therefore I KNOW there is a cup. I am an atheist, and there is no doubting I am an atheist, because I know what I think. Just the same as you ARE a Muslim, it's not just POSSIBLE that you are. Therefore I KNOW I am an atheist just as much as you KNOW you are a Muslim. there is no doubting the matter.

And before you ask: If science, one day, proved the existence of a God, we would be the first to hold our hands up and say 'we were wrong' but until the evidence is found, we can't do that logically. However, if God was proven NOT to exist without a shadow of a doubt, I doubt religion would turn around and say 'oops, we were wrong'. If that day comes, I hope they will surprise me. I just want everyone to be happy without the Muslims fighting the Christians and vise versa and everyone being at each others' throats all the time? Is that too much to ask?

[Godscreated]

I did a search, and its alarming how often this has to be cleared up. Example:

You never even once visit church or pray to a God coz you BELIEVE that there is no God.

Let me attempt to illustrate exactly why this is the absolute worst choice of words to make a point that you are absolutely NOT MAKING.

Lets say that Bill, Jane, and John appear on earth as intellectual beings capable of reflectioin and communication.

They are aware of their surroundings and begin to experience their existance as human beings to the best of their capability...

Before long they are learning very much about the world. They learn to make fire and tools. They take materials given to them and create useful objects from them. They engage in conversation about life and before long, they begin to contemplate their origin...

Just exactly who gave them the material, seems you're saying you believe in someone outside of their existence. Wouldn't they need to include whoever gave them the material in their contemplation of origin?

This is where The Burden of Proof begins...You with me Theists?

All 3 people have the question: "Where did we and our surroundings come from?"

Bill: "I was rubbing 2 sticks together earlier to create a fire, I realized that because I can make things, everything must in fact also have been created by someone else. Then I had a dream. A voice told me that I was right, and that they were in fact the one that created EVERYTHING!"

God does not claim to be a dream, in scripture God does communicate through dreams, but God had already made Himself known.

Jane: "What do you mean Bill? Are you saying that because you can rub sticks together to cause fire, the Sun that is also hot must have a similar origin, and your dream confirms this?"

Bill: "Precisely! Perhaps the voice of my dream belongs to a giant person like us...One we cannot see."

John: "I don't know Bill, I don't think we know enough about that Sun thing to be making such bold presumptions, all though the dream thing is pretty weird."

Bill: "Come on John, it makes perfect sense! Do you have a better idea?"

John: "No, and I'm not saying I believe you and I'm not saying that I don't, I would prefer not to speculate any further."

According to John they really know nothing about the 'sun thing', so why does Jane assume it's hot, why does Bill assume a maker is in the form of a human that can not be seen. God presented Himself to Adam and Eve in person, so to speak. There's a reason to believe He was in human form but that's for another thread.

Bill: "Well, what about you Jane? Do you agree that what i've said must be true and that my dream confirms it?"

Jane: "No Bill, I do not believe you."

Bill: "Then you must be able to prove that my claim is false, otherwise you are choosing to be ignorant in the face of facts!"

Horse before the cart, makes a bad story.

Jane: "Not exactly, You took 2 sticks and made fire. We know the sun is hot, but we have no idea what exactly it is made of, nor can we see any reason to believe that a heat source such as that can be created from sticks, so to assume that because it is hot like our fire, it must have the same origin, seems a bit misleading. Secondly, we know how to make fire because we understand how to use the sticks. But, the sticks were here before the fire they created, and because we no so little of the sun, the same could be true for it. The sun may not need an explanation like the fire. Perhaps things are bit more complex then things just appearing from creation. Lastly, if someone made the Sun, and the sticks making fire is your reason for thinking it in the first place, what material do you suppose they used to create it? It seems as though your explanation needs some work. Also, Bill, I was thinking about fish the other day, and had a dream I was one. I am not convinced that this is a hint that I must actually be a fish."

From the complicated to the ridiculous. They have no idea the sun is hot like fire is, they have not used the sun to cook with. Really you think they would be thinking about what the sun is made of, they would have no idea where it's located except above.

Bill: "So, you believe that the being I will call God is not real."

Jane: "You misspeak again Bill. I do not believe that you are correct in your attempt at explaining our origin. I did not believe in God one hour ago, and I do not believe in it now. I do not know exactly where we came from, but I do reject what you've offered as an attempt to explain it."

Bill: "But you cannot show that what I say is false."

Jane: "I have no reason to believe what you say is true either, and for the time being, that's more than enough to feel confident that it isn't. My position has not changed. I have a question, you've failed to provide an acceptable explanation so I will continue my search for a more accurate one that has verifiable and reproducible results like the sticks and fire."

Now you have Jane working up scientific experiments while they're still making fire from rubbing sticks.
As far as believing Bill, I would not either, Bill made up a story to fit his thoughts, much like some in the scientific community do today, this too is another thread. Adam and Eve did not make up a story, the story is told by the Creator, they were taught by the Creator.

You say, you have no reason to believe there is a God.
You do not like someone to say you do not believe there is a God.
Both of these are negative statements, so it's six of one and a half dozen of another, both mean exactly the same thing a negative stand against God.

[Silver]

According to John they really know nothing about the 'sun thing', so why does Jane assume it's hot?

From the complicated to the ridiculous. They have no idea the sun is hot like fire is, they have not used the sun to cook with.

Simple deduction would allow one to know that the sun is hot. When the sun is in the sky, one feels the sun's warmth on one's skin. When the sun goes away, the warmth eventually dissipates until the sun rises once again to bring along with it the warmth and heat.

[Godscreated]

According to John they really know nothing about the 'sun thing', so why does Jane assume it's hot?

From the complicated to the ridiculous. They have no idea the sun is hot like fire is, they have not used the sun to cook with.

Simple deduction would allow one to know that the sun is hot. When the sun is in the sky, one feels the sun's warmth on one's skin. When the sun goes away, the warmth eventually dissipates until the sun rises once again to bring along with it the warmth and heat.

Yes, but that is not hot like fire and as I stated they do not know how far above their heads the sun is, all they really know is the sun is above them.

[Esquilax]

Atheism by definition is a lack of belief in God; however that lack of belief itself entails certain other beliefs, not all of which are fully justified.

Please, do inform me about these things I believe. I'd simply love for you to educate us atheists about the contents of our own minds. Because we simply have no way of knowing ourselves, the things you think we believe must be true, because your vast telepathic skills have allowed you to reach into our minds and pluck the things we think about right out of our heads.

Okay, but seriously: stop trying to tell us about the things we believe. We're quite capable of informing you ourselves. This shit drives me nuts.

But does anyone here believe that they are atheists.

Yeah, I believe that. And my belief is justified because I'm in my own head and I can say, with surety, that I am an atheist. It's demonstrable.

Where are you going with this?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Is there a life without hope? Hope for happiness.

This kind of view pisses me off. Why do you presume that those who don't share you very narrow and specific version of belief are also incapable of love, 'hope' and happiness?

I've never been religious once in my entire life, and I'm willing to bet that my daily experience of life is no different to any believer who happens to live near me or work with me, in both happiness and sadness and hopes and fears.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Simple deduction would allow one to know that the sun is hot. When the sun is in the sky, one feels the sun's warmth on one's skin. When the sun goes away, the warmth eventually dissipates until the sun rises once again to bring along with it the warmth and heat.

Yes, but that is not hot like fire and as I stated they do not know how far above their heads the sun is, all they really know is the sun is above them.

I don't see how that matters at all.

They make a fire, they feel warmth.

They come out of the cave into the sun, they feel the same warmth.

They come out of the cave NO SUN, NO WARMTH.

What's your issue with the assumptions made by my ficticious characters?

[Creed of Heresy]

If there is no God, then there is no immortal soul, consciousness which according to karma tastes sweet fruits of good deeds committed on earth like planets. Or experience extreme pain in hell for violence and drug use, sins.

And this bothers you, yes, we get it. 9_9

If there is no life after death, reincarnation, then we all are free to do anything, taking in account only law, our morals.

That seems A-OK to me, given that god's supposed morals and "righteousness" are inferior to our own, wherein we consider women equal and we don't consider others inferior because of their race and origins, and we're not fucking slaveholders anymore, yeah, I'm pretty cool with this. You're not...why, exactly??

If there is no God then it doest make a big difference. You can commit your life to:wealth, power, fame, family, cybergaming, sport, sex, drugs, intoxication, overeating, violence. But who the f*** cares.

He's starting to get it!

Although I can't say this about love - giving, forgiving, altruism, humanism, charity./quote]
No fucking clue what you're trying to say, here-
[quote]Love has some magic it it. Love is like a newborn baby its pure and saint.
How this magic called Love came from void, is strange.

Oh because we're capable of doing good somehow that means "ergo god?" That's a pretty big fucking leap to make, buddy. Given that humanity was capable of working together and not slaughter each other and that morals predate the monotheistic faiths, and given that the bible is absolutely immoral, just like all religious texts, I can safely say we may discard god as any kind of loving, moral figure, leaving your claim even more hollow under scrutiny than it first seemed even at its extremely dull face value.

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What's your issue with the assumptions made by my ficticious characters?

They ring too uncomfortably close to the truth for our local resident fundamentalist.