Does this idea really seem stupid?

[Dawud]

I still maintain that belief or knowledge about agnosticism regarding a subject can motivate behaviour.

My knowledge that I don't know about a topic for an exam can motivate me to study...

The knowledge that a person knows not either way about God can also influence someone too... e.g. I think that I will find out more or - I will explain to someone why I have no belief either way. A clear example of this someone writing a post - she was aware of her agnosticism and she chose to explain this. Had she not been agnostic regarding the subject then she wouldn't explain why she was agnostic and had she not had knowledge about her agnosticism she wouldn't have done it either. The agnosticism and knowledge about it makes the person different to someone who is not agnostic and not aware of this.

All I am saying is that if you are agnostic and aware of it then you will act differently had you not been.

It seems obvious and outside of this forum I'm sure people could accept this but there seems to be a suspicion by some that admitting the above is falling into some evil plan I have...

It seems silly to some to say that atheism has affected their lives and choose instead to refer to leaving religion or leaving belief in God which is just the same thing in different words...

I don't think this undermines atheism - just undermines this idea that someone agnostic cannot be motivated by their agnosticism or their awareness of it....

Atheism can be a powerful and important thing in someone's life - just like my knowledge that my time on this site makes me aware that I have no knowledge or belief about the stuff I should know for my upcoming exams: it's a powerful awareness about a lack of knowledge and belief!!

[Baalzebutt]

In essence, all you are saying is that knowledge changes our behavior.

Well, duh.

[Dawud]

In essence, all you are saying is that knowledge changes our behavior.

Well, duh.

Exactly what I've been trying to say!

---

Seriously - people all over this site have been denying this!

There is just no need...

[Cato]

My knowledge that I don't know about a topic for an exam can motivate me to study...

OK Dawud, I'll engage you....bit by bit if you will allow me. Also, 'knowledge that I don't know about' = 'ignorance'; without the negative emotive connotation.

My reply would be shorter had you not invoked an exam. Preparing for an exam inserts motivations that aren't simply overcoming ignorance. What are the consequences of a poor exam score? Does one's GPA matter? Will parents cut you off for poor performance? Will you lose a scholarship?

What about an insatiable appetite for achievement? Be damned the knowledge attained, that's secondary to the personal fulfillment of earning a high mark. What is different if the motivation is comparative? Did you bust the curve? Or do exam results prove that you are 'normal' (statistically normal of course)?

Perhaps one is not concernced about the raw GPA score, but understands that it becomes important when seeking work. Now the student is compared to others in the same discipline from different institutions. Now the same GPA is marginalized for the sake of the reputation of the degree awarding institution (reputation deserved or not).

I think I have demonstrated that the acquisition of knowledge is not 'simply' motivated by the desire to overcome ignorance. Consider this, and again ask yourself about 'atheist' motivation. Is the motivation atheistic? Or, is an atheist behaviorally motivated by other considerations?

[Dawud]

Yes - an atheist is obviously motivated by a whole host of things: one of which being an awareness of an atheist identity.

I'm by suggesting that's the sole belief that one is atheist leads to something. Just as the sole belief in God doesn't lead to anything.

But the belief I this identity or knowledge of it can clearly make someone act different. Just as had everything been the same with regards to the exam but I had no knowledge or awareness regarding my lack if knowledge.

Awareness regarding oneself 'being agnostic' is definitely a cogent motivator in people's lives (along side many other things too: hence why people react to this identity differently)

[Whateverist]

Stupid? No, more like disingenuous. You seem to strive for gotcha moments. Gawd only knows what zinger you are saving up for the first person who admits their lack of belief or lack of knowledge motivates their behavior.

Please allow me to trigger the trap. Yes, I confess it, my agnosticism and atheism drives everything I do. Not one moment passes that I don't wonder if I am doing enough to support these important aspects of my being. If only I could have saved a few more from theist belief .. why lord, why?!

[Dawud]

Not looking for a gotcha - just letting people persuade me of their position and vice versa: it's a discussion.

I'm not out to get you so you can relax a bit more - you remind me of Christians who think that non-Christians are only motivated by daemons.

I'm not out to disprove or undermine agnosticism! I'm just discussing this topic and developing my understanding through a dialectic. I might even turn around and say- oh I see: identifying as an agnostic has no effect on anybody. But for now I like lots of atheists here I disagree with Rhythm and think that an agnostic identity makes a difference in your life...

[Whateverist]

Not looking for a gotcha - just letting people persuade me of their position and vice versa: it's a discussion.

I'm not out to get you so you can relax a bit more - you remind me of Christians who think that non-Christians are only motivated by daemons.

I'm not out to disprove or undermine agnosticism! I'm just discussing this topic and developing my understanding through a dialectic. I might even turn around and say- oh I see: identifying as an agnostic has no effect on anybody. But for now I like lots of atheists here I disagree with Rhythm and think that an agnostic identity makes a difference in your life...

Well, honestly, I think an agnostic frame of mind really does make an immense difference in my life. There are a few questions where it is important to realize there is no 'truth' in the sense of justified believe which anyone may have. Then the way they express their confidence in their beliefs on those topics becomes telling.

[Dawud]

Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true. To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time. Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question (as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage). Many of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk. Forming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology. The “mind-body problem”, for example, so central to philosophy of mind, is in part the question of whether and how a purely physical organism can have beliefs. Much of epistemology revolves around questions about when and how our beliefs are justified or qualify as knowledge.

[Ben Davis]

I'm starting to get tired of this. Look, it doesn't matter how you spin it or how you analogise; atheism doesn't lead to action. Only the values that a person does hold can lead to actions, not the absence of ones that a person doesn't hold. This is obviously easy to grasp so why do you seem to have so much difficulty? You continually try to position atheism as a value system when it is not and can never be. I'm of the opinion that your misrepresentation is deliberate and arises because you're trying to reconcile an internal conflict (between the facts of atheism and your beliefs about atheism) in favour of your beliefs.

To point out the failures in your latest analogy:

I still maintain that belief or knowledge about agnosticism regarding a subject can motivate behaviour.

Misdefinition: you start by conflating knowledge and belief. As this premise is flawed, so will be every outcome of the resultant application.

My knowledge that I don't know about a topic for an exam can motivate me to study...

So we're focussing on knowledge for now? OK.
Nope. The absence of knowledge is not a motivator. Rather the need for knowledge is the motivator. You need to pass the exam therefore you need the knowledge. Even if there was no exam, the absence of knowledge would still not be the motivator; instead there would be a value which would trigger the action, for example the belief that one should know about the subject.

The knowledge that a person knows not either way about God can also influence someone too... e.g. I think that I will find out more or - I will explain to someone why I have no belief either way.

Nope. This is the same fail as above.

A clear example of this someone writing a post - she was aware of her agnosticism and she chose to explain this. Had she not been agnostic regarding the subject then she wouldn't explain why she was agnostic and had she not had knowledge about her agnosticism she wouldn't have done it either. The agnosticism and knowledge about it makes the person different to someone who is not agnostic and not aware of this.

Nope. The need to explain the agnosticism was the value that caused the explanation, not the agnosticism itself.

All I am saying is that if you are agnostic and aware of it then you will act differently had you not been.

Nope. This will only be true if you hold values which cause you to act on the agnosticism.

It seems obvious and outside of this forum I'm sure people could accept this but there seems to be a suspicion by some that admitting the above is falling into some evil plan I have...

Unlikely but not impossible. More likely is the fact that people recognise how wrong you are and therefore don't accept your proposition.

It seems silly to some to say that atheism has affected their lives and choose instead to refer to leaving religion or leaving belief in God which is just the same thing in different words...

Now you've suddenly switched from talking about knowledge to talking about belief. Presumably the result of your erroneous conflation of the topics in your flawed premise.

I don't think this undermines atheism - just undermines this idea that someone agnostic cannot be motivated by their agnosticism or their awareness of it....

Yes you do. You clearly think that because you're using it to try and undermine atheism. However all you're doing is undermining your straw-man definition therefore highlighting either your ignorance or your disingenuity.

Atheism can be a powerful and important thing in someone's life

No it can't. Rather the values which led someone to atheism will be the powerful & important things.