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If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
#81
Re: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
Come on, without the crucifixion story, we wouldn't have Torture Porn Jesus.
[Image: jesus_on_cross_crucifixion-full%255B1%255D.jpg]
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#82
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
Well jesus wasn't even sacrificed he knew he was going to heaven this isn't an sacrifice at all.
[Image: oie_24131128_CIMC84_Qv.jpg]
Sometimes I Pretend To Be Normal,But It Gets Boring. So I go Back to Being Me.
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#83
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
(May 22, 2013 at 6:18 am)Gabriel Syme Wrote: In the Christian view (at least mainstream Christians, Catholics), Christ was fully human and fully divine.
I'm not sure how this is relevant. He gave up the fleshly body for good. He gave up the divine body for a period of time so short that he may not even remember it.
Gabriel Syme Wrote:With respect, you have no understanding of this: he didnt just 'die', he was put to death (executed).
Again, how is this relevant? He sacrificed a human life, that was the goal. He could easily have jumped off of a cliff. An archer could have struck him down. Sacrifice complete, no need for a gory slasher flick.
Gabriel Syme Wrote:Mainstream Christians simply understand hell as "the absence of God", not as a pit of fire.

Your understanding here is tainted by bible believing protestants, who are not representative of global christianity in the slightest.
Well then, replace "eternal torment" with "eternal absence of god." It remains that god inconvenienced himself for what amounts to a miniscule fraction of the blink of an eye, in order to complete some bizarre plan of his own making. Anyone who recognizes this for the sham that it is would get a much harsher penalty. Very selfish fellow, this Yahweh.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#84
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
Quote:In the Christian view (at least mainstream Christians, Catholics), Christ was fully human and fully divine.


Yeah, yeah...we know. So was Emperor Augustus!
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#85
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
[Image: 485404_375144402591425_694863645_n.jpg]
[Image: oie_24131128_CIMC84_Qv.jpg]
Sometimes I Pretend To Be Normal,But It Gets Boring. So I go Back to Being Me.
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#86
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
Gabriel Syme Wrote:It still happens now - the rejection of truth. The Church Christ founded makes pronouncements on (eg) homosexuality, because secular society says its harmless. Yet, 20% of USA gay men have HIV-AIDs (50% in Frisco).

Does society say "Hey, look at these figures, you might be right"? No, they put they fingers in their ears and scream "bigot".

This is off topic, but I felt the need to respond to this. Though you might think people are putting their fingers in their ears and screaming "bigot," what they are actually saying is that much of the adverse and risky behavior can most likely be sourced to the marginalization and denigration they have suffered at the hands of religious zealots that insist they are abominations. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that if homosexuals were accepted just as straight people, that many of the adverse effects that people like you claim are the result of homosexuality would actually disappear.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#87
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
Anyone that spends 4 days or more in Hell has sacrificed more than Jesus ever has.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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#88
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
The OP forgets that He was both tortured and killed. Suppose he hadn't been killed, but merely (and I use that sarcastically) tortured until he was a vegetative bloody pulp, which is pretty much what he was before actually dying. That's still be a huge sacrifice just in itself. The point is this. Death on the Cross was just the completion of His sacrifice not the fullness of it.

(May 23, 2013 at 8:57 am)Sal Wrote: Anyone that spends 4 days or more in Hell has sacrificed more than Jesus ever has.
Don't you mean Detroit.

(May 21, 2013 at 3:35 pm)Tonus Wrote: For he so loved the world, that he wore a cheap suit. I like the ring of that.
Now that is actually kinda funny.
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#89
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
(May 5, 2013 at 6:18 pm)Drich Wrote: Then the common every day explanation hit me. It wasn't that Christ has to loose anything to sacrifice Himself. Christ Sacrificed Himself/Died so you did not have to. Meaning Christ died in your place.
That was the sacrifice. It is the same with what was being done with the animals in the OT. The Animals were dying so people did not have to die (for 'small' sins.)

You've explained the *why* and not the *what*. What was it that he sacrificed for me? Your explanation tells me why, but not what it was. The answer definitely does not involve "life", because he rose again.

Still at square one.

Chad Wooters Wrote:The OP forgets that He was both tortured and killed. Suppose he hadn't been killed, but merely (and I use that sarcastically) tortured until he was a vegetative bloody pulp, which is pretty much what he was before actually dying. That's still be a huge sacrifice just in itself. The point is this. Death on the Cross was just the completion of His sacrifice not the fullness of it.

There's been people held in captivity that have gone through worse and then stayed dead!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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#90
RE: If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?
First, Jesus did not become man to be killed. The crucifixion was a result of the rejection of Jesus' message by his people. If Jesus' message had been accepted salvation would have come to humanity in another form. God is not a blood diety, this was revealed in the story of Issac and Abraham, when God stops the killing of Issac; this was a big step forward in an era when human sacrifice was the norm. God did not want the blood of Issac, he certainly did not want the blood of Jesus.

Jesus became man to bring us the kingdom of God, he did this through preaching, through example, through bodily and spiritual healing. A consequence of his ministry was rabid rejection of him by the powerful in his society, this led to his execution. So what's the big deal you ask, if he knew he was going to resurrect what kind of a sacrifice was it. Well, Jesus was not a super hero, he was as truly human as any of us, he felt the fear, the pain and the abandonment each of us would feel in that situation. He also had to struggle against the temptation to skip the whole thing and ask God to rescue him. He tells Pilate "my kingdom is not of this world, but I am a king." So his death was not a walk in the park, there was fear, there was anguish. There was the added burden of being rejected by his own creation. There was the pain of knowing in a way he had failed, his teaching wasn't enough humanity ultimately needed his death. Painful enough for you.

Let me give you small example from human experience. Take someone who has a curable cancer, but has to go through a harsh treatment to get there. Does this person suffer any less because the odds are in her favour? Do you say to this person, you're not really suffering because chances are you will live?
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