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What would convince you that a god exists?
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 Quote:The jinns "of Islam" do exist, that is an undeniable fact. No it isn't. Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them. Impersonation is treason.  RE: What would convince you that a god exists?
May 10, 2013 at 12:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2013 at 12:42 pm by The Reality Salesman01.)
At first the obvious answer is...to see IT. But, after thinking about it. I probably wouldn't recognize it if I did see it.
For me to see it, which is what it would take to believe it, I would be in the presence of an entity that is an abstract obeject, wrapped in contradiction. The very idea of this "God" presenting itself would collapse all understanding that I would have in this state of existance I currently occupy. So, for a God to exist, that would meet the description common to such God(s), I too would have to be redifned as an abstract object, wrapped contradiciton. So, trying to imagine what it would take to be an abstract object, wrapped in logical contradiction in the presence of an abstract object, wrapped in logical contradiction makes me think that neither of us would even recognize each other anyway. And even if such a thing were possible for even a second, it would end as soon as it started, and time for recognition probably wouldn't be available. An omnipotent God of unlimited power existing, would mean the immediate obliteration of all existance at the point of this God's inception. If you make power infinite on one side of the equation, matter becomes infinite too, and then all of the sudden, as if the universe were in a massive micro-wave oven containing an atom blast...it's all gone. So, I guess it wouldn't even matter whether or not I accepted that the abstract object existing in proximity to my own abstract presence was in fact God...we'd both be instantly obliterated anyway. Bummer. 
A very Douglas Adams view of the unknowable; you can't have the question and the answer in the same universe. I suppose when it comes to the actual cause of the universe (a quantum fluxuation, a black hole in another universe, or whatever), this could possibly be true. Maybe between space/time bubbles, cause and effect cannot exist in the same universe. This is, of course, grand speculation.
I disagree with you in that, if indeed the Abrahamic god did exist (and what a huge "if"), he could simply break that rule and reveal hisself to us anyway, since he's all-powerful. Of course, then he could have just broken his own rule of requiring human sacrifice for redemption, but that's another point entirely. 
(May 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Praetorian Wrote: A very Douglas Adams view of the unknowable; you can't have the question and the answer in the same universe. I suppose when it comes to the actual cause of the universe (a quantum fluxuation, a black hole in another universe, or whatever), this could possibly be true. Maybe between space/time bubbles, cause and effect cannot exist in the same universe. This is, of course, grand speculation. All powerful= instant obliteration...Its a wash. RE: What would convince you that a god exists?
May 10, 2013 at 10:21 pm
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2013 at 10:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Presumably, a god would know what it took (I fail to see why I should spend any time wondering, that's more a job for gods and the godly) - but why we assume this is a mystery. Have to leave a little room for the possibility that there are moron gods, right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
I have no logical reason to think he does, so until that logical reason surfaces, I don't think I know what it would take. However if it turns out there was a deity, they have a lot to answer for. Prepare to be judged by generations of Atheists, he cannot judge us after the atrocities he has let happen on his creation.
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The idea of an idiotic god always entertained me. "Divine tinkerer" is the formal term, I think.
Like...if the universe was a machine for producing black holes (which it would seem to be), and some non-corporeal entity was supervising it, it's entertaining to think that we might be a pet project; an ant farm or fish tank at the office, if you will. I don't actually believe that, but it would be incredibly ironic.
(May 11, 2013 at 12:42 am)Praetorian Wrote: The idea of an idiotic god always entertained me. "Divine tinkerer" is the formal term, I think. This would be amazing if true. Because though this would prove the deists correct... we would get to see the look of disappointment on the look of all of those wonderful theists that dedicated their lives to prayer and to alienating us, only to discover they were an ant farm that could at any minute be quashed.
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(May 10, 2013 at 5:25 pm)Praetorian Wrote: ...Why? Because power is equal to mass X the speed of light squared. If you make one side of the equation (power) infinite, the other side becomes infinite as well. Think about how much power is in the sun. The sun is just a medium sized star, now for a second, try to imagine an infinite power source. Now, if power is infinite, and then mass becomes infinite...use your imagination. If there was an infinitie amount of energy, mass could not exist, in fact, you and I existing and not being vaporized proves there isn't an unlimited source of energy in the universe, the amount of energy required to match the sum of infinity, would leave to possibility for anything else to exist! |
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