Pope Francis defends atheists

[Drich]

Again, why couldn't both have happened?

Modern homo sapiens has been around for a hundred thousand years at the very least. There are human settlements dating back long before 6,000 years ago. So, no, both could not have happened.

Why not? In my Evolution thread (The link I provided) I out lined a possiable scenario in which both 'realities' could have very well have taken place.

In this scenario the bible does not get changed, and evolutionist get as much time as the need to climb out of the slime as they want.

So, what the problem is?

[Whateverist]

I do not disagree with what Frankie said. "That the same blood washes the sins of the atheist away as it does for the believer." The only question then becomes, does the Atheist accept what Has been done for him?

Man, if they let me into heaven I am so going to kick your ass.

[Ryantology]

Why not? In my Evolution thread (The link I provided) I out lined a possiable scenario in which both 'realities' could have very well have taken place.

In this scenario the bible does not get changed, and evolutionist get as much time as the need to climb out of the slime as they want.

So, what the problem is?

The problem is this:

When in fact all we can really say is that man has been out of the Garden 6000 or so years.

Remains of homo sapiens have been found, all over the world, which are hundreds of times older than this.

[rexbeccarox]

What's been done for him?

John 3:

14 “Moses lifted up the snake in the desert.[a] It is the same with the Son of Man. He must be lifted up too. 15 Then everyone who believes in him can have eternal life.”[b]

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him. 18 People who believe in God’s Son are not judged guilty. But people who do not believe are already judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son. 19 They are judged by this fact: The light[c] has come into the world. But they did not want light. They wanted darkness, because they were doing evil things. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light. They will not come to the light, because the light will show all the bad things they have done. 21 But anyone who follows the true way comes to the light. Then the light will show that whatever they have done was done through God.

You realize most of us here are atheists, right? And according to Francis, that doesn't matter. Why on earth would we appreciate words from the Bible when we don't believe in them? And why should we?

Again, what has been done for "him", the atheist? I don't really care for anything being done for me, but you asserted it, so pay up!

[Raven]

The pope said: In the same homily, Francis said all people, "even the atheists," are "redeemed" through "the Blood of Christ" - the Christian belief that the sins of humanity are wiped clean through the crucifixion of Jesus.

Like I care what some grouchy old choirboy humping chickenhawk in a dress thinks? He can go sit on his pointy hat and spin. Let him talk about how he's going to address all the hypocrisy and evil the anachronistic institution he's in charge of is guilty of.

[Drich]

I do not disagree with what Frankie said. "That the same blood washes the sins of the atheist away as it does for the believer." The only question then becomes, does the Atheist accept what Has been done for him?

Man, if they let me into heaven I am so going to kick your ass.

Why wait? Why put off tomorrow what you can do today!

I can give you the address of my Church and we can have a Sunday, SUNday, SUNDAY!!! Battle Royale right out front!

Because I do not think you will get you chance later, I could be wrong I hope to be wrong, but let's just say if you have an itch better you scratch it now.

---

Why not? In my Evolution thread (The link I provided) I out lined a possiable scenario in which both 'realities' could have very well have taken place.

In this scenario the bible does not get changed, and evolutionist get as much time as the need to climb out of the slime as they want.

So, what the problem is?

The problem is this:

When in fact all we can really say is that man has been out of the Garden 6000 or so years.

Remains of homo sapiens have been found, all over the world, which are hundreds of times older than this.

Homosapien and Man made in the image of God are not the same thing. As I explained in my thread Evolved man/Homosapien is Man born with out a soul. Man Made in the image of God has a soul.(That is the part of us that is made in the image of God)

Jewish tradition says that woman give birth to the flesh while man's contrubition is to pass on the spirit or soul. There is a clear seperation throughout the bible. Keeping body and spirit seperated from what happened in the garden, to whatever happened outside of it is not unreasonable. Especially since God Himself seperated the rest of the world from eden. Remember the planet was not Eden, but a finite space defined by the four rivers that ran through it.

---

John 3:

14 “Moses lifted up the snake in the desert.[a] It is the same with the Son of Man. He must be lifted up too. 15 Then everyone who believes in him can have eternal life.”[b]

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him. 18 People who believe in God’s Son are not judged guilty. But people who do not believe are already judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son. 19 They are judged by this fact: The light[c] has come into the world. But they did not want light. They wanted darkness, because they were doing evil things. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light. They will not come to the light, because the light will show all the bad things they have done. 21 But anyone who follows the true way comes to the light. Then the light will show that whatever they have done was done through God.

You realize most of us here are atheists, right? And according to Francis, that doesn't matter. Why on earth would we appreciate words from the Bible when we don't believe in them? And why should we?

Again, what has been done for "him", the atheist? I don't really care for anything being done for me, but you asserted it, so pay up!

I am not sure of what you are asking me to pay.

[Gearbreak]

The pope said: In the same homily, Francis said all people, "even the atheists," are "redeemed" through "the Blood of Christ" - the Christian belief that the sins of humanity are wiped clean through the crucifixion of Jesus.

Like I care what some grouchy old choirboy humping chickenhawk in a dress thinks? He can go sit on his pointy hat and spin. Let him talk about how he's going to address all the hypocrisy and evil the anachronistic institution he's in charge of is guilty of.

What would be the outcome of that? Calling all of your followers evil bastards? I'd rather be happy that he's taking a step in the right direction and that the catholic church is being led by somebody with some sense. Let's not get him kicked out right away.

[SoTiny]

Atheists and other nonbelievers largely welcomed Wednesday's (May 22) remarks by Pope Francis that performing "good works" is not the exclusive domain of people of faith, but rather a place where they and atheists could and should meet.

In a private homily, Francis described doing good not as a matter of faith, but of "duty, it is an identity card that our Father has given to all of us, because he has made us in his image and likeness."

Then, referring to non-Catholics and nonbelievers, he said, "if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good."

Reaction among American nonbelievers ranged from mild surprise to warm welcome. Some say they see Francis' remarks as a sign that nonbelief - atheism, humanism and other forms of freethought - is being normalized, while others see recognition of what they say they have known all along: Having no faith does not mean having no morality.

"We are a community that is just trying to do good and live good lives, just like most communities are," said Greg Epstein, Harvard University's Humanist chaplain and author of "Good Without God." ''His statement is an acknowledgment of that. It is welcome and it is gratifying."

Epstein was struck by the contrast of Francis' remarks and Tuesday's broadcast of an interview by CNN's Wolf Blitzer of an Oklahoma tornado victim. When Blitzer asked the woman if she wanted to thank God for her family's survival, she replied she is an atheist.

"You have this small example of this soft-spoken young mother who is recovering from the tornado who by her presence, her quiet dignity, not only exemplified what the pope was saying, but overshadowed him," Epstein said. "The quiet dignity of her just being a person and so clearly a good and loving person, it makes my reaction, and I would think a lot of people's reaction (to Francis' remarks), 'Well, of course.'"

Dale McGowan also affirmed the pope's recognition of nonbelievers. His Foundation Beyond Belief collects funds from nonbelievers and distributes them to charities and relief organizations and organizes teams of secular volunteers. To date, Foundation Beyond Belief has raised more than $35,000 for victims of the Oklahoma tornado.

"Anything that decreases the mistrust and fear between people is a good thing," he said. "Some people might say it contradicts past statements (of other popes), but I don't care about any of that. It is terrific when a position evolves to where we can put division behind us, and this is an example of that and I think it is great."

D.J. Grothe, president of the James Randi Education Foundation, an organization of skeptics, said he hears echoes of the landmark Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) in Francis' remarks. And while he takes issue with some policies of the Catholic Church - the promotion of miracles, the opposition to contraception - the pope's address was nonetheless "refreshing."

Francis' predecessor, Benedict XVI, was a vocal opponent of secularism and unbelief, even as he approved a new initiative called "Courtyard of the Gentiles" to engage in dialogue with nonbelievers and linked arms with outspoken Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci, an atheist who saw trouble in the growth of European Islam.

"I don't see that disdain for nonbelief that was so apparent before" in other popes, Grothe said. "He is really talking about what I would call humanism - the ethical approach to making the world a better place without recourse to supernatural beliefs."

In the same homily, Francis said all people, "even the atheists," are "redeemed" through "the Blood of Christ" - the Christian belief that the sins of humanity are wiped clean through the crucifixion of Jesus. The inclusion of atheists in a belief they do not share seemed to raise few hackles.

"He was using his own language and speaking from his own beliefs," McGowan said, a statement echoed by others. "That is not the point. The point is he is saying, 'I don't fear you,' and I think that is a lovely thing."

http://www.bucyrustelegraphforum.com/usa...le/2355935


This guy is a lot better than Benedict (Emperor Palpatine) was.

If you are a good person because of your religion, what would you call me? I'm a good person because I choose to be a good person, not for jesus, not for a god, but for myself.

[Minimalist]

Actually it is Minnie. Whether you like it or not whether you accept it or not it is indeed evidence. It may not be what you want to see or hear but there it is..

Horseshit. The fact that morons stubbornly cling to fairy tales does not make them true. There is probably some shithead somewhere who thinks Jack and the Beanstalk is true.

It isn't.

We need actual evidence. Artifacts. There are holes big enough to drive convoys of trucks through some of your favorite bible tales. You close your eyes and pull a cowardly lion routine.





It does you no credit. I think you are an asshole and there's no "jesus" to give you points for it.

[KichigaiNeko]

Francis my dear, no one gives a damn.