Science confirms the Bible?

[littleendian]

Well, my grandfather was prepared to die for the country, people have died for their nation, why do you think it's bullshit for people to die for what they believe in?

Dying for something believing it's worth dying for and that thing actually being something worth dying for are two very different things, take it from a German.

[The Grand Nudger]

Alright fair enough. I don't think there's anything wrong with not being prepared to die for it, who knows what your reaction would be, people can do strange things in those kind of situations.

I could tell you my reaction-supposing I found myself in one of your fever dreams surrounded by a conquering muslim army lining up all the unbelievers. I'd say whatever I had to say in order to survive long enough to plant explosives in all of that shiny, new, stolen infrastructure. That's how cowardly pacifists roll, after all.

[ideologue08]

People have died for many nations - a large majority of which neither you or I are likely to consider "worth dying for".

I always think defending oneself or one's belief is always worth dying for, in any conflict, there's usually an aggressor and a defender, to kill others because you want them to live like you or you want to usurp their property is not a worthwhile death no, but fighting such a conflict to defend yourself is always worthwhile imho.

Yeah...that's me...lol, the cowardly pacifist with a blue cord on his shoulder, crossed rifles on his chest, and cat eyes on the back of his head. Go fuck yourself.

No one called you a cowardly pacifist...calm down. It was criticism of an idea not your persona.

[Doubting Thomas]

That may be the biggest lie told here yet.

Yes, science has never given us anything has it? But an ancient book written by superstitious goatherders has made everyone's lives so much better.

[fr0d0]

Well, if something interacts with reality, even if it withdraws to the realm of metaphysics afterwards it does so dripping with physics

If god directly intervenes with the world, then we'd have some evidence of spontaneous happenings devoid of cause...

It would look the same either way, so how could you possibly tell?

So where is your great idea?

If Gods intention is for his existence to be unknowable, independently of belief, as is established in the bible, you won't be able to distinguish his actions with science.

Yet you make the claim that this is false. Please show us your reasoning.

How could you possibly know, I'd the question we all want answering, or else we can all even more confidently know that this is an open question with no defeating arguments.

[Esquilax]

You think it's smart to sell out on your beliefs?

I think I can't do anything to alter the world that would kill me for my beliefs if I'm dead.

So if a Nazi in WW2 stripped you naked and threatened to end you, you'd sell out? Why do you hold your atheism in such low value?

Another way to look at it would be this: I hold my atheism to a very high value indeed. After all, I can't continue to be an atheist if I'm dead; the belief lives on longer for my being tactful to preserve it.

What if an army came and threatened to wipe out all atheists, imagine what would happen if not a single atheist was prepared to fight to the death for their beliefs?

Being prepared to fight to the death is planning for failure. Once again, corpses can't advance their views.

So where is your great idea?

If Gods intention is for his existence to be unknowable, independently of belief, as is established in the bible, you won't be able to distinguish his actions with science.

And you wouldn't be able to distinguish his actions at all. We only exist in physical reality, it's all we've got to see, unless you're appealing to some special way of knowing. I also have to ask, why do you think your god is so obsessed with obscuring himself?

Yet you make the claim that this is false. Please show us your reasoning.

No, I make the claim that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe that a god exists. And now you're apparently claiming that god is actively covering up evidence of his existence, so... how am I possibly to think any differently? If an objective view of the world shows an absence of a god, because that self same god is intentionally making himself unknowable, then how does anyone start believing in him?

How could you possibly know, I'd the question we all want answering, or else we can all even more confidently know that this is an open question with no defeating arguments.

Since you're intent on defining your god into unfalsifiability, yes, there's no way to positively prove it either way with science. But by corollary, you've also lost any credibility to arguments that he does exist, which erases any hope you have of fulfilling your burden of proof.

If your claim is solely a recourse to faith, then there's no reason for anyone to take it seriously. You're trying to cheat and have it both ways, but all you've really said is that nobody, least of all you, has any reason to believe in god beyond a subjective, never evidenced feeling.

[fr0d0]

Correct, just look at what your supposedly holy church did to Galileo.

That may be the biggest lie told here yet.

I agree. Science is as true as the most recent discovery.

[ideologue08]

Dying for something believing it's worth dying for and that thing actually being something worth dying for are two very different things, take it from a German.

That's true yes, but the problem is this; what you consider to be worth dying for, might not be what somebody else thinks it's worth dying for, there's inherent subjectivity here, so if you're not prepared to fight for your beliefs and you just surrender, you will be run over by other people's beliefs. That's obviously not to say it's a bad thing necessary, such as in the case of Germany obviously in both world wars, they obviously felt aggrieved by the treaty of versailles and whatnot, so they launched what they believed was a righteous war, only to have their arse handed to them.

[The Grand Nudger]

I always think defending oneself or one's belief is always worth dying for, in any conflict, there's usually an aggressor and a defender, to kill others because you want them to live like you or you want to usurp their property is not a worthwhile death no, but fighting such a conflict to defend yourself is always worthwhile imho.

Unfortunately, ones willingness to die for something doesn't have the power to transform it from ignorance - and no one is defending themselves by goading on their executioner - which is the situation that you presented.

No one called you a cowardly pacifist...calm down. It was criticism of an idea not your persona.

Oh no..lol, of course not. It's a position of intelligence - where cowardice or pacifism enters in remains a mystery.

[littleendian]

so if you're not prepared to fight for your beliefs and you just surrender, you will be run over by other people's beliefs.

Of course, but you will have to be ABSOLUTELY DAMN SURE about something, I mean 100% positively crystal clear that it is obviously the right thing, then you can die for it.

Germany obviously in both world wars

Germany was not solely to blame for WW1, all Europeans and their dogs were shits and giggles looking forward to that one not foreseeing the trenches and poison gas bullshit that resulted. It was a dumb war fought for no good reason except for Europe to vent steam and it was not worth dying for at all.