In a world without God...

[Faith No More]

...and again why cant this be true of a universe that God creates?

It could be, but that is not the question you asked. You asked why these things happen, and given that no proof of god's existence has been offered, I gave the most likely and well evidenced explanation.

[Esquilax]

Well, then we go around the same circle this debate always takes; why bother worshiping a god that can help people with little effort, and just doesn't?

I did not say God does not ever offer help. I simply said God is not your own personal wish genie.

That aside we Worship God because we want to Love Him as a son would love a father. In your son father relationship do you only love your dad if he does what you will? What if your a strung out addict and need money for your next fix, but your father will not give it to you, does it mean he does not love you?

Not to get too far into my personal life, but you picked a bad person to be pulling out comparisons between god and fathers, since I've deliberately excused myself from being a part of my father's life for pretty much the same reason I wouldn't worship the god reflected in the bible even if I did believe he existed; he's kind of an abusive twat.

Let me put it this way; would you love your father if he tortured one of his children just to prove that this kid would still love him? What about if you knew he'd spent an inordinate amount of time drowning people and animals? If you knew he'd calmed down a little now, but that he still has the ability to save children from dying painful deaths with little effort on his own part, but that he just wouldn't, because as you say, he's not a wishing genie?

Would you accept any of your own excuses if you were talking about a person living on earth?

Death is only the unforgivable sin to those who worship and love THIS life above all else. We have been told that Ultimate love for This life some of us have, is reserved for God alone. If we Love God first, then we will have eternal life. If we love this life First what we have will be taken from us.

Is not the cessation of needless and undeserved suffering in this life not always a moral good, regardless of whether there's an afterlife?

[The Grand Nudger]

Is not the cessation of needless and undeserved suffering in this life not always a moral good, regardless of whether there's an afterlife?

Where would any given believer get his torture rocks off if he didn't have any suffering to leer at - given that at present he can only imagine what awaits those who impose this sort of thing upon others in hell?

Bit like a drunk that hits the listerene bottle between paychecks - if you ask me.

[Doubting Thomas]

Your presents right? Even if I am not in your presents

Are we all getting presents today? Oh boy!

[pocaracas]

In a world without god....
- what would make people believe that such an entity exists?

What makes people think you exist? Your presents right? Even if I am not in your presents you do leave evidences that show you were/are here. Like this post.
At somepoint if we wished to meet up a time an place could be arranged for both parties to meet. If one comes at the wrong time or goes to a place that the other party is not, does that mean the other party does not exist, because he is not there? No. It just means that the wrong time/place guy is not looking where the other party can be found.

Meaning Just because God has not made Himself known to you does not mean you have proof He does not exist.

Yes, I have some physical quantities.... nothing of the sort on imaginary beings.
But you failed to answer the question:
On a world with no god, how would people become aware of any god?

- what would make different groups of people believe in different sets of such deities?

various reasons ranging from deceiving spirits, to a want of self worship.

I was under the impression we were presupposing that there is no god.... where do such spirits come from?

[orogenicman]

I never said it was, but since you brought it up, the main differences are that it refutes prayer,

How so?
The Biblical examples of Prayer do not give the believer the power or authority to select or wish for an easier life for himself. In fact the model of prayer Christ gave us in Luke 11 has us praying that God change our life and out look to match His will. Not the other way round where we pray to change His will to our own.

But what your antiquated Bible may or may not say about prayer is irrelevant to the fact that the universe simply does not care, not for you, nor me, nor anyone else. Mankind is a speck on a speck on a speck to the 100th power smaller than the rest of the universe. To say that we are utterly insignificant in the cosmic scheme of things is a mighty understatement. Sorry, your prayers fall on deaf ears, not out of spite or any reason other than the fact no one is home to hear them.

refutes a controlling deity that can manipulate and/or perform miracles in contradiction to natural laws to our benefit, or that there is a god that has your best interest at heart.

The only thing the reality of this world should refute is your personal idea of God who's only purpose is to serve a man who formulates his wishes with a bowed head and closed eyes.. But, really really means it.

My idea of a personal god? Whatever gave you any idea that I believe in any god(s)?

[downbeatplumb]

Why do bad things happen to good people? Why do children get cancer? Why do bad people always seem to thrive?

Shit happens.

What is your point?

[Minimalist]

Why do bad things happen to good people? Why do children get cancer? Why do bad people always seem to thrive?

[Drich]

I didn't leave that out, that would be indifference. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure we could come up with a god that doesn't fit any of my examples - and doesn't grind against any of those questions you asked. And?

Letting a loved one hit/seek bottom is not indifference. It is the strongest love one can exhibit for a love one just short of dying for them. (Which God did so you were allowed to seek/hit bottom.)

[The Grand Nudger]

Letting a loved one hit/seek bottom is not indifference. It is the strongest love one can exhibit for a love one just short of dying for them. (Which God did so you were allowed to seek/hit bottom.)

I'd disagree, I think it's probably the most dramatic expression of indifference that I can conceive of, but so what if it weren't? As I mentioned - we could imagine a great many gods (or sprockets, or waffles, or lint balls, or crayons, or..well..you get the picture I hope) which do not fit any of those categories I already offered and do not rub against the reality of our existence which prompted you to ask the questions. We could also imagine a great many different conceptions of "love" which are in the same boat. The greatest expression of "love" could be lenders bagels, for example...and we don't have a problem.

And?