Did They Not Pray Hard Enough

[Cyberman]

I think not. If anything, tragedy increases our prayers to God!

If there were no strife in life, what need would there be to call upon Him?

Arguable at best. Deeply condescending at worst. I have seen more than my fair share of tragedy over the last few years; I am also helping to support someone in the process of their own personal tragedies. I know lots of people personally who have experienced/are experiencing some of the most eart-rending tragedies and I know that we all together are not atypical examples of the human condition.

I'll give you three guesses what one single crutch everyone I mentioned above has not resorted to.

Apart from which, pointing out that people may turn to a god out of desperation is evidence on the exact par with letters to Santa proving the existence of the Jolly Old Elf himself.

[Anomalocaris]

Frustrating...aint it? No peace in your hearts.

More condescending bullshit from a Christian.

I find a hell of a lot more peace in my heart (my brain, actually) since I realized that everything the Catholic church is peddling is bullshit and left without looking back.

No, real condescension would not be so shrill. Only fake condescension that morbidly fears being recognized would be so shrill.

As with most religious conversions, she probably thinks faking it is the path to feeling one is actually making it. She is putting on the act of condescention in the hopes that the pretense would somehow be the path to the substance, and by acting in a condescending way she could somehow acquire something to be condescending about.

[Bad Writer]

I'm still confused as to whether ronedee is a male or a female.

[Anomalocaris]

I'm still confused as to whether ronedee is a male or a female.

I think she is too.

[ronedee]

I think not. If anything, tragedy increases our prayers to God!

If there were no strife in life, what need would there be to call upon Him?

Arguable at best. Deeply condescending at worst. I have seen more than my fair share of tragedy over the last few years; I am also helping to support someone in the process of their own personal tragedies. I know lots of people personally who have experienced/are experiencing some of the most eart-rending tragedies and I know that we all together are not atypical examples of the human condition.

I'll give you three guesses what one single crutch everyone I mentioned above has not resorted to.

Apart from which, pointing out that people may turn to a god out of desperation is evidence on the exact par with letters to Santa proving the existence of the Jolly Old Elf himself.

Thanks for proving my point stimmy! If you don't pray... you don't know!

Its interesting how the venom and contempt flows freely when something extremely "evident" to a Christian can't be understood.... It's an obvious wide divide that atheists dig in an attempt to "portray" some type of knowledge they don't have. Or a complete comprehension of something they've never experienced.

Tell me, how do you get a better understanding of something by moving away from it?

In actuality, the divide gets wider, and wider. Something like the [analogy alert!] chimp in a cage that scraps his hand to the bone trying to get an apple through the bars....when all he needs to do is put it up the bars and take a bite!

The only reason to be angry at me, is because I am speaking the TRUTH.

A truth you have no understanding of. I'll pray that each of you experiences God, in some way. A way that touches your hearts! That's a sincere promise.

[Bad Writer]

Its interesting how the venom and contempt flows freely when something extremely "evident" to a Christian can't be understood....

Anything that's not demonstrably true is difficult to understand. Kindergartners understand this; they don't know a square peg doesn't fit into a round hole until they try it for themselves.

Tell me, how do you get a better understanding of something by moving away from it?

I tend to stay away from outrageous claims that have no evidence backing them up. You can't have understanding without evidence. Remember my kindergartner analogy?

In actuality, the divide gets wider, and wider. Something like the [analogy alert!] chimp in a cage that scraps his hand to the bone trying to get an apple through the bars....when all he needs to do is put it up the bars and take a bite!

This analogy is fallacious because it only works if the apple is there in the first place.

I'll pray that each of you experiences God, in some way. A way that touches your hearts! That's a sincere promise.

A promise you could never hope to keep.

[Tonus]

A/S/K=Ask Seek Knock, ask=ask.

So if you do not have the mindset to A/S/K then you should just ask for it.

So if you do not have the mindset to ask, seek, and knock, you should... ask? I'm not seeing how the revised question is any different.

Red Herring. This is not the situation I presented.

One red herring deserves another.

No. In Luke 11 you were given directions on where to meet God. instead you are running the school yard trying to figure out where he is hiding, when all the while the invite you have that gives you a direct road map is being ingored.

"Ask, seek, and knock" is not a direct road map. At best, it's a general suggestion that leaves the specifics to the listener... who is then admonished that he didn't do it right if it doesn't work. It's almost as if god doesn't want many people to be saved.

We are told by the time we are able to see this for ourselves it will be too late.

Which is just bizarre. After centuries of interacting directly with mankind, god decides to hide in his bedroom. He does this knowing that mankind had a hard enough time believing in him when he was known to them. It's almost as if he doesn't want many people to be saved.

Then you may want to reconsider this assumption. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the book.

Knowledge of Christ has nothing to do with the only book that gives knowledge of Christ, because the book may not be reliable? It's almost as if god doesn't want many people to be saved.

Freedom TO Sin is no freedom at all. Freedom From sin and the law is true freedom.

That's a curious statement. Do you consider yourself free from sin and the law? Because if not, then the only difference between us is that I enjoy one additional freedom.

Because you have not asked for specifics.

Well, how does a person A/S/K, specifically?

---

Prayer transcends: time, space and understanding. You won't know just what (far reaching) effect prayers have until we meet God.

I, and my friends & family have prayed for many, MANY things, and can't think of [one time] they weren't answered in "some way". Not ONE!

God doesn't work in our time. He works in His.

This kind of thinking acts as a sort of confirmation bias for believers. I felt this way about prayer as well, when I was a believer. And it was reinforced by so many others who thought the same way.

We would pray to god for help, or guidance, or whatever it was that we felt we needed. If we got exactly what we asked for, it was proof that god answered our prayer. If we got something different but things seemed to work out, it was even more concrete proof that god answered our prayer, because he knew the solution better than we could. If we got something different and things did not work out, then it was proof that god answered prayers, and that he was showing us that we had asked for the wrong thing or asked for the wrong reasons, and it was time to give up and go in another direction.

You could flip a coin or roll a pair of dice and use that as god's guidance, and it would work the same way if you applied the above approach to it.

[Cyberman]

Thanks for proving my point stimmy! If you don't pray... you don't know!

"I know you are, but what am I?"

Lame, Ronny. Very lame.

Its interesting how the venom and contempt flows freely when something extremely "evident" to a Christian can't be understood....

It's interesting how the ad homs flow freely when something purportedly "evident" to any theist isn't immediately sucked up gratefully as though it's the finest wine. Instead I'm offering my opinion that what you're trying to sell me is actually vinegar, based on observation of its sour effects on the humanity of others.

It's an obvious wide divide that atheists dig in an attempt to "portray" some type of knowledge they don't have. Or a complete comprehension of something they've never experienced.

Aside from the obvious projection re: knowledge you don't have, where do you come off judging people like this? Many of the atheists in our happy little band are former theists of one flavour or another, though yours truly never has swallowed the bait up to now and will be well and truly buggered before I ever will in the future.

Tell me, how do you get a better understanding of something by moving away from it?

Actually, I've been standing still the whole time simply waiting to see something to consider. You and your compadres are the ones dodging about and refusing to show anything above the level of insults, platitudes and special pleading.

In actuality, the divide gets wider, and wider.

In your head the divide gets wider and wider. If actuality has anything to do with it, it's not my fault. Give me something I can sink my teeth into, or stop pretending the Emperor is a fashion icon.

Something like the [analogy alert!] chimp in a cage that scraps his hand to the bone trying to get an apple through the bars....when all he needs to do is put it up the bars and take a bite!

Analogy fail. In your example, we have a chimp, a cage, an apple and hand injuries. All demonstrably existent. The evidence for your (or any) god and its supposed prayer-answering aspect is... more special pleading, seasoned with condecescension.

The only reason to be angry at me, is because I am speaking the TRUTH.

Shouting doesn't hide the projection. Please show me anything I have written that suggests anger directed towards you, or else retract this allegation in your very next post.

A truth you have no understanding of. I'll pray that each of you experiences God, in some way. A way that touches your hearts! That's a sincere promise.

This is a speedbump. The proselytising ends here. Thank you for your co-operation.

[Minimalist]

And you won't know any until you profess: "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"

Is that why women always shout "Oh god, oh, god?"

[Faith No More]

The only reason to be angry at me, is because I am speaking the TRUTH.

You mean we shouldn't be angry because of the patronizing superiority with which you preach?