Did They Not Pray Hard Enough

[Anomalocaris]

Should a god talk to himself?

If he wasn't crazy enough to talk to himself, he'd have realized he wasn't god.

[Minimalist]

I was just wondering if there was a connection, as well. Either way, no big loss.

What kind of person are you, the death of these individuals is tragic.

Apparently your fucking god didn't think so. Who are you to question him?

[FifthElement]

Should a god talk to himself?

If he wasn't crazy enough to talk to himself, he'd have realized he wasn't god.

[genkaus]

Prayer is not a formal wishing ceremony. It's not a way for Christians to change their lots in life, and it is certainly not a way to change the mind of God. Prayer is a tool used to change the mind of the one who is praying to seek and accept God's will and to make it their own.

You are wrong.

Prayer:

a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship.

Nowhere does it say that it is a tool to change your own mind.

[Cinjin]

Prayer is not a formal wishing ceremony. It's not a way for Christians to change their lots in life, and it is certainly not a way to change the mind of God. Prayer is a tool used to change the mind of the one who is praying to seek and accept God's will and to make it their own.

The bible didn't put any disclaimers on prayer, but GUESS WHAT ... this filthy fucking apologist will. He'll also tell you what Matthew meant and that his impotent god doesn't have to answer to the likes of us lowly peons here on earth when he rolls his preacher's bus over. Fucktard doesn't understand that once upon a time he'd be grovelling to a god named Zeus and explaining to us how we've all upset him.

Fucking sheep.

I was just wondering if there was a connection, as well. Either way, no big loss.

What kind of person are you, the death of these individuals is tragic.

What the fuck are YOU talking about GC?!?! You can't have it both ways. How is it a tragedy when your idiot sheep friends join their favorite person in heaven to suck his dick for eternity???

I'm surprised you're not screaming out "praise jesus ... I wish I was on that bus too!"

How can GOD'S WILL possibly be a tragedy? Especially when he knocked off one of his own sheep herders.

[Doubting Thomas]

Damn... why couldn't it have been Fred Phelps instead? Further proof that there is no god.

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What kind of person are you, the death of these individuals is tragic.

What the fuck are YOU talking about GC?!?! You can't have it both ways. How is it a tragedy when your idiot sheep friends join their favorite person in heaven to suck his dick for eternity???

I'm surprised you're not screaming out "praise jesus ... I wish I was on that bus too!"

How can GOD'S WILL possibly be a tragedy? Especially when he knocked off one of his own sheep herders.

Why is it that Christians don't rejoice whenever one of their own bites the dust? After all, aren't they going to Heaven with its streets paved with gold and mansions made of precious jewels?* I guess GC forgot all about that aspect of death. Funny how Christians talk about Heaven like it's this most wonderful place ever, but none of them are in a hurry to get there. If I truly believed that I'd be going to such a wonderful place, I'd engage in all sorts of reckless behaviors. No more seat belts, and I'd take up mountain climbing and sky diving as hobbies, without safety equipment.


*What the hell does anyone need with gold, jewels or other riches in Heaven anyway? It's not like you have a physical body that you need to buy food for, or that money would even need to be used since you'd have everything you wanted. And if everyone had gold or jewels, that would make them pretty much worthless, right? Which, I guess, explains why they built the streets and mansions out of them.

[Tonus]

Prayer is not a formal wishing ceremony. It's not a way for Christians to change their lots in life, and it is certainly not a way to change the mind of God. Prayer is a tool used to change the mind of the one who is praying to seek and accept God's will and to make it their own.

But people pray for all kinds of things, and not just to know the will of god. The prayer 'template' that Jesus gave his disciples asked for a number of different things, including that god provide for their basic needs, forgive their sins, and help them resist temptation (although the way it's worded would indicate that god himself is the one doing the tempting???).

It is a channel for communication with god, and it does not seem unusual for people to pray for things that having nothing to do with changing minds or making god's will their own. Unless that's another of those phrases that can be stretched so thin that it becomes useless.

[Doubting Thomas]

Just a quick note about prayer: Ever notice how Protestants are quick to point out that bible verse about not repeating or reciting prayers by memory (a dig at Catholics who do just that) but yet they tend to recite the Lord's Prayer because Jesus said to?

[Drich]

Of course, that must be according to the Gospel of Drippy because matt. 21:21 says:

21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

When one turns to the bible to see what it says on things like prayer one can not cherry pickk or limit one's self to just on passage on the subject being discussed. Christ tells us how to pray in Luke 11 and pairs it with a parable that completes the thought that your passage in Mat starts.

Look At Luke 11
The Model Prayer
11 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”

2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say:

Our Father in heaven,[a]
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
[b]Your will be done (God's will not our own)
On earth as it is in heaven.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.”[c]

A Friend Comes at Midnight
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs. 9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

So to ask in God's name is to Ask what ever God's wills for your life, and at the end of the passage I left, Christ tells us what the Father Wills for us.

So, I guess their "faith" was of the shitty kind, eh?

Of course, while we are on the subject, maybe you can explain this little tidbit from Luke 11:11.

11 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

Who, exactly was "jesus" praying to?

Seriously?
The Prayer Starts out: "Our Father in Heaven." Who do you think He is speaking to?

After all, you guys maintain that he and "god" are one in the same. Should a god talk to himself?

We've had this discussion before. Short answer is: God is a title and not a Name. As in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Or If you perfer something a little more trestial It's like saying Mr, president. We only have one president that is head up the United States, but many different indivisuals have held that office and shared that title.

In turn one God, in three personages that share that same title.

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Prayer is not a formal wishing ceremony. It's not a way for Christians to change their lots in life, and it is certainly not a way to change the mind of God. Prayer is a tool used to change the mind of the one who is praying to seek and accept God's will and to make it their own.

You are wrong.

Prayer:

a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship.

Nowhere does it say that it is a tool to change your own mind.

, ah no. That is what man thinks prayer is. without question without doubt. Most people believe prayer to fit your defination, that's why it is defined that way. Not in dispute.

However Christ (God the Son) tells it is not a formal wishing cermony. Matter of fact in his model of prayer we are only to ask for "our daily bread." The rest we are to pray for is what God wants us to pray for. So for a bible based Christian Prayer is not about getting God to do stuff for you or a way to get stuff from God. Or so says Christ. But if you still think the dictionary trumps what Christ had to say about Christian prayer then I can only shake the dust from my feet and move on.

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The bible didn't put any disclaimers on prayer, but GUESS WHAT ... this filthy fucking apologist will.

luke 11 cinny.

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But people pray for all kinds of things, and not just to know the will of god.

It's not a sin to ask God for things, it's just not prayer. Paul in Phillipians 4 makes a distinction between petitioning God and praying. Therefore petitions/"supplication" are not prayers.

The prayer 'template' that Jesus gave his disciples asked for a number of different things, including that god provide for their basic needs, forgive their sins, and help them resist temptation (although the way it's worded would indicate that god himself is the one doing the tempting???).

Indeed, Daily Bread is what God wants you to ask for. Which makes it a prayer.

It is a channel for communication with god, and it does not seem unusual for people to pray for things that having nothing to do with changing minds or making god's will their own. Unless that's another of those phrases that can be stretched so thin that it becomes useless.

It's down right common place that 'we' have turned prayer into a wishing cermony, but that is not what Christ established, nor is it what Paul spoke of either.

[StuW]

Please bear with me, this is my first post on these particular forums and i'm still trying to work out the etiquette.

We've had this discussion before. Short answer is: God is a title and not a Name. As in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Or If you perfer something a little more trestial It's like saying Mr, president. We only have one president that is head up the United States, but many different indivisuals have held that office and shared that title.

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other"

But when Jesus was on earth there were 2 as he was also god according to your interpretation? You can't have 2 "Mr Presidents" at the same time.