What Is The Point Of Prayer?

[Sword of Christ]

Do you believe parents should be charged with murder for praying that their child will be cured?

As long as they give them decent scientific medical treatment as well. I think I made myself clear that I'm not against science here. I'm as keen on science as any atheist would be. Issac Newton, he was rather keen on science if you think about it.

[Gil Gaudia]

Sword of Christ says, "As long as they give them decent scientific medical treatment as well."

Isn't God able to do it alone?

[Walking Void]

Do you believe parents should be charged with murder for praying that their child will be cured?

As long as they give them decent scientific medical treatment as well. I think I made myself clear that I'm not against science here. I'm as keen on science as any atheist would be. Issac Newton, he was rather keen on science if you think about it.

[Gil Gaudia]

Sword of Christ says, "I'm as keen on science as any atheist would be."

Well the science shows no benefit from prayer. In one study those who were prayed for did worse.

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With regard to the "power of prayer" to heal, it must be assumed that God hears the prayer and then responds to the request by influencing the cells, the bacteria, or the body's immune system; the potency of the medications; or other factors that are involved and are necessary for the restoration of function to the systems in question -- cells, tissues, organs, etc. Would these phenomena be subject to scientific measurement, identification, or verification? What would the subjects, patients, witnesses, and investigators observe?

[Sword of Christ]

Isn't God able to do it alone?

If you're talking about miracles that is always done through intermediaries who are able to channel something God through themselves and bring that into physical manifestation. Spiritual healing as you see Jesus perform in the gospels would come under that. The thing to bear in mind though is that this kind of power is rare at least to the potency that we're talking about so you may want to rely a bit more on the brain God has given us instead.

[Chas]

Of course there are more, but that first step is too high a barrier of entry for god.

Jesus of Nazareth who is called the Christ is a person. He is also God incarnate so I do not understand what you mean by the barrier is too high.

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I'm asking you how you are communicating with god and how you know that it is god you are communicating with.

I know I am communing with God when I pray because through faith and obedience, I have over a period of time cultivated a relationship with Jesus Christ and I know His voice. Kind of like how you know your brothers voice or your fathers voice because over time you have heard it and know what it is like and the kinds of things they say.

In the same way, when I pray and when God speaks to me it is not with an audible voice but rather an impression or a sense that only the spiritual regenerated man possesses. It is by grace through faith and this not of myself but rather the gift from God.

So there is no evidence, just your testimony of your internal mental and emotional state.

Not convincing at all.

[Gil Gaudia]

Isn't God able to do it alone?

If you're talking about miracles that is always done through intermediaries who are able to channel something God through themselves and bring that into physical manifestation. Spiritual healing as you see Jesus perform in the gospels would come under that. The thing to bear in mind though is that this kind of power is rare at least to the potency that we're talking about so you may want to rely a bit more on the brain God has given us instead.

This really sounds quite convoluted. Don't you think? Can prayer heal or not?

[Chas]

Here's where the point goes missing. My comparisons were in reply to your observation that people would have stopped doing something proven to be a lie. Clearly, this doesn't happen in the examples I mentioned. The only prayer (nyuk nyuk) for prayer at this point is special pleading.

I very much doubt prayer would have survived for long past the axial age when the modern view of the universe began to be developed. It continued because the people who practice the technique experience something. If you want to put it down to something psychological or physiological you can but that's only you're opinion. You have nothing particularly to support your opinion beyond that.

Religious practices, including prayer, persist because they are taught, generation to generation.

Brain scans of people engaged in thinking show activity in parts of the brain involved with thinking. Earth shattering.

It's a real physical effect of some kind you can observe so that's a demonstration that prayer does in fact do something beyond a person talking to their imaginary friend who doesn't exist.

The physical effect shown is that the verbal are of the brain is excited. It only shows that the person praying is doing something verbally, nothing more.

One question: if this stuff is proven as you submit, why aren't all neuroscientists religious?

Because they're under assumption that consciousness is a byproduct of brain function alone. Of course there is no particular evidence for this, it's really just a belief popular within the scientific community at this point.

There is clear evidence that affecting the brain affects consciousness. Changes to brain structure and to brain biochemistry change thinking and consciousness.

There is no evidence that thinking is anything other than an emergent property of the brain.

[Sword of Christ]

This really sounds quite convoluted. Don't you think? Can prayer heal or not?

It can but would manifest itself in what we call the placebo effect. It wouldn't normally be transferable, not by the average person anyway.

[Gil Gaudia]

This really sounds quite convoluted. Don't you think? Can prayer heal or not?

It can but would manifest itself in what we call the placebo effect. It wouldn't normally be transferable, not by the average person anyway.

The placebo effect can be caused by a sugar pill. You seem to be saying that this is the same degree of influence as God's power.