Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?

[discipulus]

You have yet to establish your opinions as objective. Simply labeling them so does not mean that I or anyone else must agree.

There is a simple way for you to find out. Try eating poop.

Stepping over the issue of whether or not your views have the weight of objectivity to support them, I simply pose a question:

How are you ultimately any better off than the poop eater?

Because my psychological motivations are sufficiently consistent with my biological ones such that I have no desire to eat poop.

Yes. I am a Christian. I can speak theistically or if I desire to demonstrate a point I can speak atheistically or as one that speaks while taking into account certain implications that follow from a Godless reality.

Unfortunately, you completely fail to understand the implications of a godless reality and therefore you do not actually speak "atheistically".

The poop eater and you will both soon die and your biological functions will cease.

How are you ultimately any better off than such a one?

[Esquilax]

The poop eater and you will both soon die and your biological functions will cease.

How are you ultimately any better off than such a one?

You'll be less sick, for one. And I mean that in the sense of having less physical illnesses.

[discipulus]

You have yet to establish your opinions as objective. Simply labeling them so does not mean that I or anyone else must agree.

Stepping over the issue of whether or not your views have the weight of objectivity to support them, I simply pose a question:

How are you ultimately any better off than the poop eater?

Do we actually have to explain to you why, biologically, poop is bad to eat?

Not to mention that the metaphor has become extremely strained from its original context, if we're discussing this.

There are many things people do in life that others consider to be bad.

Smoking for example....drinking alcohol in excess...anal sex...

Some consider some acts bad....some good.

Many may agree eating poop is bad. Personally I agree. But if I live in a world that exists as the result of a colossal accident resulting from blind natural forces acting on matter and the short time I exist I am free to determine what is and is not meaningful to me, then I understand that my personal opinion that eating poop is bad is the same as saying it is my personal opinion that lasagna is good.

People here are assuming that I should agree with them that living in such a manner that is conducive to my health and the well being of others is good and obligatory.

I may agree. Many may not agree. Many could care less about not only their health but the well being of others. Many may actually find meaning by positively harming themselves and others.

My point is that no one here is ultimately better off than the sadistic murderer who finds fulfillment in murdering.

---

The poop eater and you will both soon die and your biological functions will cease.

How are you ultimately any better off than such a one?

You'll be less sick, for one. And I mean that in the sense of having less physical illnesses.

Maybe the sexual arousal one receives from eating poop outweighs the potential negatives.

Those who enjoy anal sex definitely feel the arousal and pleasure outweighs any potential negative side effects.

My point is that the poop eater and yourself are ultimately no better or worse off for your preferences. You both die and turn into compost.

[Esquilax]

You know dude, if you want to be a nihilist that's fine, but some of us actually enjoy living life as though the events in it are significant, and that objectively known things exert some pressures upon reality.

So, yes, we're all going to die: this fate is shared, and that makes what we do in life objectively meaningful, not ultimately meaningless. Some things are objectively true: you eat poop, your chances of getting sick increases. The sicker you get, the shorter your life might potentially become. Therefore, eating poop is objectively risky.

And look, I didn't even have to be immortal to come up with a value judgment. Weird, huh?

[ITChick]

Welcome new guy. I like the cut of you jib!

Whomever is in the minority should be aggrieved at the rule of the majority.

You like the new guy who confuses the hell out of everyone!?

Actually, now that I think about it, it makes sense. Are you sure you are not him?

[genkaus]

The poop eater and you will both soon die and your biological functions will cease.

How are you ultimately any better off than such a one?

His life would be sickly and he'd die sooner - so I'd be better off.

---

There are many things people do in life that others consider to be bad.

Smoking for example....drinking alcohol in excess...anal sex...

Some consider some acts bad....some good.

Many may agree eating poop is bad. Personally I agree. But if I live in a world that exists as the result of a colossal accident resulting from blind natural forces acting on matter and the short time I exist I am free to determine what is and is not meaningful to me, then I understand that my personal opinion that eating poop is bad is the same as saying it is my personal opinion that lasagna is good.

People here are assuming that I should agree with them that living in such a manner that is conducive to my health and the well being of others is good and obligatory.

I may agree. Many may not agree. Many could care less about not only their health but the well being of others. Many may actually find meaning by positively harming themselves and others.

My point is that no one here is ultimately better off than the sadistic murderer who finds fulfillment in murdering.

That's simply insane. It isn't anyone's personal opinion that eating poop is bad for you, its an objective fact. Don't believe me? Try it and find out.

If you don't act in a manner conducive to your and others' well-being, you won't get to live very long. Finding meaning in things that go against life itself - such as harming others - is contradictory and detrimental to both your life and the meaning you find in it. That fact remains the same irrespective of god's existence. Which is why anyone who finds meaning is productivity is ultimately better off than someone who finds meaning in destruction. Which is why a lasagna-eater like me is ultimately better off than a poop-eater like you.

Maybe the sexual arousal one receives from eating poop outweighs the potential negatives.

Those who enjoy anal sex definitely feel the arousal and pleasure outweighs any potential negative side effects.

My point is that the poop eater and yourself are ultimately no better or worse off for your preferences. You both die and turn into compost.

Given that the duration and quality of life are relevant here, one would be objectively ultimately better off than a poop-eater. The rational solution here is not to find sexual arousal in eating poop so you won't have to sacrifice your health. And while we are at it, what are the "potential negative side-effects" of anal sex?

[discipulus]

You know dude, if you want to be a nihilist that's fine, but some of us actually enjoy living life as though the events in it are significant, and that objectively known things exert some pressures upon reality.

So, yes, we're all going to die: this fate is shared, and that makes what we do in life objectively meaningful, not ultimately meaningless. Some things are objectively true: you eat poop, your chances of getting sick increases. The sicker you get, the shorter your life might potentially become. Therefore, eating poop is objectively risky.

And look, I didn't even have to be immortal to come up with a value judgment. Weird, huh?

But eating poop is risky to you because you happen to be concerned about your health.

Having anal sex with men is risky to me because I am concerned about my health.

But surely, you understand that many homosexuals consider the pros to outweigh the cons right?

My point is this...

Some people are of the opinion that maximizing their own temporary pleasure is of paramount importance and say to hell with how it affects my health and to hell with whether or not it affects anyone else.

Ultimately they, like you, are simply living in a way that is meaningful to them. They will not be judged after they die for the way they treated their bodies and others. They will not be punished for doing what they have done. There is no recompense for them or for you.

Death is the great equalizer and when one dies they die and turn to dust. You and the poop eater are ultimately both dust regardless of how you lived.

And saying that life is objectively meaningful is great. Thats your opinion. The nihilist would disagree.

Saying that your opinions somehow contain the status of being objective does not make them so.

[Esquilax]

Aaaand I'm done talking with this joker. Oh, everything's just an opinion, nothing is true, whatever anyone does is as good as anything else, it's all just blah blah fucking blah.

That puts us in the position of being unable to have conversations about anything. I'd rather go and do something useful, if it's all the same to you. Discipulus, see how long it takes for this "everything's an opinion and therefore not true," schtick to stop anyone from bothering to engage with you. I guarantee you, you will become a forum ghost if this is all you're intent on doing.

... But you'll probably just think this is just my opinion anyway.

[downbeatplumb]

Yeah - right up until the spaghetti eaters take over the statehouse in fucking Texas and try to ban lasagna because it is against some ludicrous "god's" will.

That's when you people pass from mildly annoying to major pains in the ass.

And many would agree with you I am certain.

Many would disagree.

The beauty of it is, strictly speaking, reality could care less what your opinion is or even what the opinion is of those that storm the statehouse in Texas.

Some find meaning in life by trying to have what they believe is God's will put into legislation. You may find meaning in life by trying to prevent them from doing so.

Both you and they are simply doing what you think is right.

Its funny how "gods will" is always small minded and bigoted isn't it?

[genkaus]

But eating poop is risky to you because you happen to be concerned about your health.

Having anal sex with men is risky to me because I am concerned about my health.

But surely, you understand that many homosexuals consider the pros to outweigh the cons right?

And exactly what are the cons?

My point is this...

Some people are of the opinion that maximizing their own temporary pleasure is of paramount importance and say to hell with how it affects my health and to hell with whether or not it affects anyone else.

Ultimately they, like you, are simply living in a way that is meaningful to them. They will not be judged after they die for the way they treated their bodies and others. They will not be punished for doing what they have done. There is no recompense for them or for you.

Death is the great equalizer and when one dies they die and turn to dust. You and the poop eater are ultimately both dust regardless of how you lived.

And saying that life is objectively meaningful is great. Thats your opinion. The nihilist would disagree.

Saying that your opinions somehow contain the status of being objective does not make them so.

That's a moronic point of view. Do you really imagine that judgment after death could be the only consideration for deciding how to live? Only a moron would believe that.

If those people find meaning in things that cut their lives short, then they'd objectively have less meaning in their lives. Its simple math:

Total meaning of life = Meaning found in some activity x Length of life. If the goal is to maximize the total meaning of your life, then choosing activities that'd cut down your life is not a rational choice.