God's sacrifice

[Violet]

The all-knowing knows ultimate pain... and to do this one must be able to feel pain... and this being, if he is omniscient: has been broken by the pain.

[Edwardo Piet]

He can't be broken, he's omnipotent.

He feels the pain but it doesn't hurt him. And he has no need to care, because he has no need for anything, because he's perfect apparently. He has no need for anything, everything is 100% perfect from his perspective, a perspective that we can't possibly understand because we'd need his mind. He is omnipotent and he made everything, he never makes mistakes, he doesn't need to care. He doesn't need anything. He's his own completed project that never makes mistakes.

EvF

[Ace Otana]

If he knows everything, indeed he knows what pain is like. But since he is 100% perfect he doesn't need anything, so he doesn't need to care that it hurts, and since he is omnipotent it cannot hurt him either. So despite his knowledge and the fact he knows how much horror is in the world, why would he care? He could intellectually know how bad the pain is, without actually giving a shit because he's perfect, and he therefore doesn't need to. He doesn't need to care about anything, he's, apparently, perfect. Emotion is petty to him, everything is. In fact, he doesn't need to do anything if he's perfect. So 1. Why would he need to create the universe in the first place if he was perfect already and didn't need to, and 2. If creating the universe is what fulfilled him, and made him perfect, then from then on, being perfect, he wouldn't need to actually do anything further, so no wonder he doesn't bother to do anything. He's done his job and he's apparently perfect and 100% fulfilled now

EvF

That then leads to the question of what is the purpose of god? What is his purpose in anything or is he devoid of purpose? What purpose is there for him to create something or anything for that matter? How does anything help him? Being perfect and being anything and everything would mean there is nothing for him to work on to be more than what he is. No limit, no desire, no path to walk on no higher ground and no future. Just is and shall ever be and nothing more. So with that, would gods existence be nothing but a purposeless existence that is completely devoid of meaning and future. A boring plane and so creates the universe and just watches it grow and us grow dumber. But being all knowing would mean he knew he was going to create the universe and so is pointless in watching anything happen as he already knows it's going to happen. So then whats the point in creating a universe? If he already knew he was going to create the universe then why would he need to work on designing it if he already knows how to before even thinking of it?

We could go through all this or we could let go of religion and live out lives through science and reason where for us, there is no limit since we'd never make it that far. Nothing but future and knowledge for us that gives us that purpose of development for the future.

[Violet]

He fails to be hurt, and is therefore not omnipotent. Having no cares means indifference, in which case he is most certainly not loving. It is only 100% perfect from his perspective because he is mentally unstable... and the only reason we cannot understand him is this mental instability...

In which case, even as a computer he fails: he is illogical... and therefore he cannot be perfect. Omniscience is insanity.

[Edwardo Piet]

@ Ace

I'd say that, indeed, he is completely devoid of purpose. He doesn't need a purpose. He doesn't need to do anything. He doesn't need anything. There was therefore no point to creating the universe, he just mechanically creating it, whilst he was filling himself up to perfection I guess, in which case now he no longer needs anything (since he's perfect apparently) so the remaining stuff is just like clockwork. And he never needs to intervene, because, to repeat again: He doesn't need anything. So I guess he must be a deistic God then? Because he doesn't need to intervene?

He's an apathetic God, but not in an emotional sense. He doesn't need emotions lol. He literally needs and requires fuck-all basically lol.

He sits back and doesn't need to even watch the clockwork as the clock ticks and time goes by. Actually he doesn't need to sit back. He doesn't even need to move. He's static, he does fuck-all. All action must have been used to reach a level of absolute perfection, and I assume creating the universe must have been part of this single task, before he was perfect, so when he actually had a purpose. Then the rest is clockwork.

And if this isn't the case, if he never even had a purpose in the beginning because he was perfect all along, then the whole concept of his perfection breaks down because there would have been no need to create anything in the first place if he was perfect already. So I reckon, he must have been less than perfect, and for some reason unknown to us mere morals, creating the universe helped him reach 100% perfection and from then on...the rest is clockwork and he does fuck-all now lol.

@Saerules, from out 'mere mortal' human perspective of omni-benevolence, God is indeed not all loving. And if it means anything different to him, then that's not what we would define as all-loving anyway, that would be something else (like from our perspective, either complete callousness or evil). So by our definition he is indeed not all-loving.

However, on your point of omnipotence. If he can't be hurt then that's due to his omnipotence, not the other way around. He's invincible so he can't be hurt. Failing to be hurt is not something he can't do, it is something that can't be done to him, due to the fact he's invincible because he's omnipotent.

EvF

[Ace Otana]

Couldn't of said it better my self EvF.

[fr0d0]

All good honest questions. And it's important to question. I've concluded that very painful times in my life had a purpose in that they made me stronger. This isn't just a spiritual conclusion, but a secular one too.. although perhaps it really is entirely spiritual whether we admit it or not.

Personally i don't want this fairy tale life some of you want. I want reality and I want all it can throw at me. This is what life is about, and it's what makes it so f'in amazing. God is good and this life is what we have. I want it if you lot don't.

[Ace Otana]

All good honest questions. And it's important to question. I've concluded that very painful times in my life had a purpose in that they made me stronger. This isn't just a spiritual conclusion, but a secular one too.. although perhaps it really is entirely spiritual whether we admit it or not.

Personally i don't want this fairy tale life some of you want. I want reality and I want all it can throw at me. This is what life is about, and it's what makes it so f'in amazing. God is good and this life is what we have. I want it if you lot don't.

Hey fr0d0! Hows it been?

Personally i don't want this fairy tale life some of you want.

And what is that if you don't mind me asking. Fairytale?

God is good and this life is what we have. I want it if you lot don't.

God doesn't exist and this life is what we have.

[Edwardo Piet]

God is good and this life is what we have. I want it if you lot don't.

God doesn't exist and this life is what we have.

Hey good one Ace. I never thought of that: Repeating a bare assertion right back at him, give him a taste of his own medicine . I'm tired of repeating "Back up that bare assertion" sometimes. Nice one.

EvF

[fr0d0]

Hey fr0d0! Hows it been?

Good thanks. Good to see ya!

Personally i don't want this fairy tale life some of you want.

And what is that if you don't mind me asking. Fairytale?

That God should make a life void of emotion/ sorrow/ pain/ sufferring.

God is good and this life is what we have. I want it if you lot don't.

God doesn't exist and this life is what we have.

Yours is another way of looking at the same problem. I have my guide book and hero. You just have what's in your head. ME: This life is what we have.