"Homosexuality is a choice" and its paradox

[Ryantology]

Because it is every Christian's mandate to force everybody around them to live according to Christian rules. This used to be done at swordpoint, but that not being in vogue anymore, they resort to using the ballot box.

Why are you so bigoted against Christians right to speak for what they see as good for society.

Because it's very obvious when virulent hatred is masquerading as concern for society. You Christians have made an art form of it.

You'd better hope that we don't vote away your rights when you become a minority, because as wrong as that is, no one can say you aren't asking for it.

[Godscreated]

Let's not digress any farther then.

No, let's do. I've asked you twice now. If you're voting against marriage equality, you must have your reasons and I would love to hear them. How does anyone's marriage, other than your own, affect you? (Third time)

Ask a million times, my answer should be obvious if you would read my posts. You're the one who said not to digress, I'm trying to comply and point you to an answer.

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Well then, GC, impose your bigoted beliefs on people because I'm sure that's what Thomas Jefferson intended to happen.

Real cute, real cute, but not real in any sense. You like to through ole' Tom around when you believe it benefits you, but you would deny me the same privilege.

GC

[Bad Writer]

How did I deny you use of his name? You invoked Jefferson, and I threw him back in your face.

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Do you think it's right to force others to follow Christian law?

[genkaus]

I agree it should not, but the gay community is pushing for the vote and the court has no right to make constitutional law.

Your ignorance of your own constitution is astounding. The US constitution is silent on the subject of marriage, but, given its stance on civil liberties, the prima-facie conclusion is that it should be allowed and therefore, any supplementary law made to the contrary should either never be passed or be struck down as unconstitutional. The Christians are the ones trying to force a constitutional amendment opposing the gay marriage and have consistently failed to to do so.

[Whateverist]

The gays who decide to be Christians are to withhold their desires according to scripture, actually Scripture calls for all gays to withhold their desires.

I guess you mean for gay people in general. But if it was your kid, would you really give them the choice or would you insist that they be Christian? Somehow I can't picture you laying the choices out there even handedly if it was your son that was gay.

Trust me, no one here much cares what the bible has to say on the subject.

I know that! I do however and I'm stating what I believe and will conduct my life by what it says.

It is fine for you to make that choice for yourself. If you insist on making the rest of us live in a bible based country, then level headed discussion isn't an option. Every non-theist needs to lose their tolerance and become an anti-theist if theists motivated as you are become too numerous.

So, it's okay to be a Christian just do not believe in what it stands for, is this the way religion's suppose to be treated in the U.S. Is this what you are stating, 'you can have all the religion you want in this country it's your constitutional right, but you can not express what you believe to be true.'

Express? No problem. Believe? No problem. Foist it on your kids? Okay. Foist it on my kids? BIG problem. You talk of freedom but it is the freedom to constrain and outlaw the freedom of others that you have in mind. Yes your freedom does end where it requires another to give up his, gay or not.

Sounds like a sweet deal for you and your ilk. You have no qualms with Christians as long as they stay in their place keeping their opinions and speech to themselves, this what you call a free society, freedom is okay as long as it doesn't infringe on your beliefs, this what you desire. Well I can get motivated myself when pushed, you have no right to say how I can vote on issues and you will not push your beliefs on me and those who stand with God.

Geez, listen to yourself. It is like I am talking to a member of the Taliban. Why is it so unreasonable to expect you to be content with the freedom to live your life as you see fit? Why should those who want no part in your religion be coerced by you and yours to also live as you see fit? You are not being reasonable.

I'm saying Christians should uphold the laws of the land as long as they do not go against God's law.

You lack any perspective on the basic unfairness of what you want. You want the law to back you up in pushing for what you want - essentially a Christian nation - while opting out of any law that doesn't go your way. Fundamentalist Christians seem no more ready for democracy than fundamentalist Muslims. I'm a non-theist when it comes to religious practice generally but I think I must be more assertively anti-theist regarding fundamentalists of all stripes.

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Do you think it's right to force others to follow Christian law?

Obviously he does. Respect his freedom but screw yours if you're not with God.

[NoraBrimstone]

GC: The fact that there are millions of gay Christians kinda undermines your whole "It's against my religion" bullcrap, don't you think?
You aren't against homosexuality because of scripture, you're against homosexuality because you're a bigot. To prove this, open your Bible, read the whole of Leviticus and have a think about how you feel about each and every one of the rules outlined there. All of them. They are equally valid, equally the word of god. If you feel exactly the same about all of it, then yeah, I'm wrong, you are just following scripture in your beliefs. However, if you are totally fine with, say, Lev 19:19 for example, then you need to rethink where your views are really coming from.

I, however, have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is the result of being bitten by a gay spider. How the spiders become gay is something I need to think about some more.

[Esquilax]

No it does not, I have the right to vote on anything from my POV and you have no right to keep me from it, so I will continue to vote as I see fit. The separation of church and state guarantees me that the state will not interfere in the way I vote. If you do not believe this then you might as well through out separation of church and state, because Thomas Jefferson upheld both of these beliefs.

GC

Whilst you're right about the state interfering with your ability to vote, it's the basis of voting on this issue specifically that's the problem; basic human rights should never be put to a vote. You wouldn't be defending this vote at all if it were a vote to curtail christian marriages, or interracial marriages, or any other thing, but because it aligns with your own personal bigotry, suddenly it's okay.

You mentioned the separation of church and state above, so let me put it this way: what secular purpose does voting on gay marriage serve? Strip away the religious stance for a moment; what's left? What arguments against gay marriage do you have without resorting back to the bible, or this tawdry "definition of marriage" crap?

If you can't think of one, then I ask you: what business does a secular government have in denying this right, or putting it up for a vote at all?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Who was the last person of the same gender that you had a crush on?

Jason Statham: he is THE alpha male...but that doesn't mean I want him to buttfuck me.

[Esquilax]

Jason Statham: he is THE alpha male...but that doesn't mean I want him to buttfuck me.

At least take him to dinner first. Who knows, he might be the bottom; people are surprising. And also, anal sex is not the only component of homosexuality, so hey.

[Zen Badger]

A study of identical twins show that around 40% of sets are split, one is gay and the other is not. So to some degree there is a question of genetics, to what degree I do not believe has been determined. This could point to the way a person perceives things as they grow up, thus a choice to be gay or not to be gay. Then maybe identical twins are not as identical as thought to be and some people are born to be attracted to the same gender and others are not. This is all for science to work out some day.
As for what scripture says (ie. God), the act of same gender sex is not natural and is to be refrained from completely. I do not know anywhere in scripture that says some people are or are not born with an attraction to the same gender, as far as I know the scriptures are neutral on this. It however is not neutral on the act of homosexuality in any form. Scriptures do not speak against the gays not having rights, it speaks against gays having the right to marry and act physically upon their feelings. So I would believe that gays having rights as married couples is scripturally wrong. Thus the reason most Christians are opposed to those rights and it is our right to choose to oppose those rights according to our Constitution. To deny a gay person the rights as an individual is wrong as long as the community says it's okay, and scripture does not speak against it, this should be a Christians stance. This subject is a hot bed of disagreement and until both sides sit down and peacefully try and draw sensible conclusions to this it will remain so, hate and anger have never solved a problem, only increased the misunderstandings of both sides.

GC

PS: German we can have sensible conversation, it's when people like you try and ruin a debate before it's conclusion that hurts this whole thing.

GC

So where in scripture is homosexuality condemned GC?