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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 2:00 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 2:00 am by Anomalocaris.)
(August 20, 2013 at 11:38 pm)ronedee Wrote: (August 20, 2013 at 11:36 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Faith, hope, and love seems like a trinity concocted by emotionally illogical individuals lost forever in the nether regions of the imagination, separated from the stability of reality.
Thank you for your lengthy, thoughtful reply! What would I do w/o you!
Nothing, you are a conceited stupid bitch beyond help or redemption. There I go again, using a pirated "Christian" word.
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 4:58 am
Speaking of Pirates...which we weren't but I will
![[Image: johnnydepp_pirates5-e1309993190720.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net%2F806D5E%2Fwordpress-L%2Fimages%2Fjohnnydepp_pirates5-e1309993190720.jpg)
ITLAPD is coming up! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
http://www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 5:35 am
Another bullshit thread
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 5:40 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 6:17 am by KichigaiNeko.)
Yep...pretty much TGAC.
hence a lame attempt to 
![[Image: Pirates+of+Johnny+Depp.+We+all+know_e6ad78_4423672.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=static.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FPirates%2Bof%2BJohnny%2BDepp.%2BWe%2Ball%2Bknow_e6ad78_4423672.png)
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 9:03 am
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Are these just pirated Christian "words"? Or do they have any meaning to you at all?
I sincerely hope you're not implying that love and hope originated as Christian concepts and were hijacked by the rest of the world.
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: 1. Can you have Faith in anything/anyone (as an anti-?), or is it just a word? Is having Faith(in anything) always a let-down, as so many claim?
Outside of a religious context, faith means trust, and yes, I can trust things.
In the religious context, faith is the great excuse to believe in things the evidence does not support, and I have no use for that.
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: 2. And Hope? Is that just another word like Faith, or does it mean something very different? Hope is very powerful to many people with, and w/o religion. Is it "false" hope that keeps them going? Or is it real in any sense?
Hope is good. It keeps us motivated to strive to improve upon our lives.
False hope, which is what religion provides, can be useful in a very tiny set of circumstances, such as a person laying on their death bed. If believing in an afterlife comforts them in that moment, that is good. Generally, false hope is bad, as it leads us to make poor decisions in our lives.
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: 3. Love. What is that? Isn't it more than an emotion ....really? Is there any amount of words, phrases, adjectives that can truly describe LOVE, other than the experience itself? I mean, love can do so many things, on so many levels! And effect/affect us in so many ways! It's probably the strongest experience we will ever know besides death itself.
Love can be powerful, yes. I never really understood that until becoming a father. However, love is just an emotion, not some entity that permeates the world.
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Why are these: virtues/values/emotions/words etc. so important to everyone regardless of religion?
Because they are part of human nature and have developed through evolution as part of our need to survive as a social species.
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Is it logical to have these virtues; with the many things they spawn? Is it a function of social necessity? Or a tool to manipulate for personal gain and profit? Would we be better off w/o them? Would we be human w/o them. Where do they fit in your evolution of man? i.e. Did one day the "ape" wake-up and not want to eat its young?
Yes, it is logical to have these virtues, as they are beneficial to an healthy society.
As for emotions and evolution, that is a complex question beyond my expertise.
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Whats your take on these very powerful words, and their effect on our lives? Gut, not textbook, please!
They are virtues that have helped man survive and develop a functioning society and have been misinterpreted and misused by the religious in an attempt to demonstrate a higher power.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 9:14 am
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Whats your take on these very powerful words, and their effect on our lives? Gut, not textbook, please!
Faith is another word for trust, IMO. Like trust, it can be based on a reasonable premise or a flimsy one, which is why we use qualifiers like "blind faith" or "religious faith" to describe types of faith.
Hope is based on our desire for a particular outcome, which may or may not be reasonable. A person who purchases a lottery ticket does so with the hope that his ticket is a winner. If he understands the odds of such a game, he may not have faith in that outcome, but he hopes for it anyway.
Love is an emotion, which like many emotions (and many chemical substances) can move us to action. Think of any emotion in its extreme forms and how they affect us. Hate? Fear? And so on.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 11:23 am
(August 21, 2013 at 9:03 am)Faith No More Wrote: (August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Are these just pirated Christian "words"? Or do they have any meaning to you at all?
I sincerely hope you're not implying that love and hope originated as Christian concepts and were hijacked by the rest of the world.
Oh sure, it's widely known that prior to Moses we all lived in caves, attacked each other unprovoked, ate our own children and generally fucked anything that couldn't get away. Once the Christians started being good it started quite a fad.
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 11:26 am
Quote:and generally fucked anything that couldn't get away.
Why hello there capybara nice TO MEET YOU!
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 11:45 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 11:50 am by Mister Agenda.)
(August 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ronedee Wrote: Are these just pirated Christian "words"? Or do they have any meaning to you at all?
1. Can you have Faith in anything/anyone (as an anti-?), or is it just a word? Is having Faith(in anything) always a let-down, as so many claim?
2. And Hope? Is that just another word like Faith, or does it mean something very different? Hope is very powerful to many people with, and w/o religion. Is it "false" hope that keeps them going? Or is it real in any sense?
3. Love. What is that? Isn't it more than an emotion ....really? Is there any amount of words, phrases, adjectives that can truly describe LOVE, other than the experience itself? I mean, love can do so many things, on so many levels! And effect/affect us in so many ways! It's probably the strongest experience we will ever know besides death itself.
Why are these: virtues/values/emotions/words etc. so important to everyone regardless of religion?
Is it logical to have these virtues; with the many things they spawn? Is it a function of social necessity? Or a tool to manipulate for personal gain and profit? Would we be better off w/o them? Would we be human w/o them. Where do they fit in your evolution of man? i.e. Did one day the "ape" wake-up and not want to eat its young?
Whats your take on these very powerful words, and their effect on our lives? Gut, not textbook, please!
Christianity doesn't 'own' those words. Non-Christians using them isn't piracy in any conceivable way. They weren't invented by Christians. They describe feelings everyone has. Now, Christians have invented special meanings for them that essentially turn them into codewords for more specific meanings. Non-Christians aren't speaking the special Christian code when they say 'faith', hope', or 'love'. Apparently you indicate you're using the code by capitalizing the words.
It's breathtakingly arrogant and insulting to even entertain the notion that people who don't share your religion don't have the same range of emotions as you. 'Faith' as in 'trust'? How dare you suggest we don't feel that? Hope, cherishing a feeling that something we desire to happen will? How could a person with a scrap of empathy think for a moment that's not something every human who isn't severely mentally handicapped feels? And yes, love is not just an emotion, it's also an ideal. An ideal you give lip-service to, but which I've never seen you even try to live up to.
That's gut, not textbook.
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RE: Faith, Hope & Love?
August 21, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Thanks for the serious replies...
But, most of you either think I have a ulterior motive for asking these questions, or some hidden meanings in the words I use/used.
"Hear me now, believe me later"! You will know when I'm being vindictive. It won't be hiding in some message or words.
For future reference, when I post a new thread its about understanding the mind, motivations and reasons of atheists. PERIOD
Quis ut Deus?
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