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RE: Trinity
September 15, 2013 at 2:36 am
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2013 at 2:46 am by old man.)
(September 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: (September 14, 2013 at 8:32 am)old man Wrote: Even though you and some others here appear determined not to change for the good, there may still be some atheists, agnostics or non-christians here who will.
Quote:What's the point of stating something like this?
To reveal the truth more clearly and to appeal to all who are heading for sure and certain everlasting destruction in an insane world that cannot stop destroying itself that they might reconsider their state of mind and their perception of reality.
I also constantly feel a need to tell my storey and explain the choices I see to as many who care to listen.
https://atheistforums.org/thread-20242.html
Well I suggest that you stop if you truly care about spreading your brand of ideas, because you're not very good at it and I suspect you've moved many readers closer to being an atheist if they aren't already there.
Time will tell, see you soon
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RE: Trinity
September 15, 2013 at 7:48 am
(September 11, 2013 at 11:53 am)old man Wrote: like I said, freedom is the freedom to choose
But the truth is not a choice.
What is real can only be revealed through scientific evidence. If what you believe cannot be verified this way it is time to change your belief. 
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Trinity
September 15, 2013 at 7:54 am
(September 15, 2013 at 2:36 am)old man Wrote: Time will tell, see you soon
Ooh, that sound ominous!
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Trinity
September 15, 2013 at 8:40 am
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RE: Trinity
September 15, 2013 at 3:34 pm
(September 5, 2013 at 4:04 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I think someone likes the sound of his own voice.
"The man in love with the sound of his own voice is not much elevated above the man who loves the smell of his own farts."
Saw that somewhere on the Internet. Had to share.
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RE: Trinity
September 15, 2013 at 3:39 pm
(September 15, 2013 at 2:36 am)old man Wrote: Time will tell, see you soon
You should change your username to "condescending old twat."
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Trinity
September 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm
(September 15, 2013 at 7:48 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: (September 11, 2013 at 11:53 am)old man Wrote: like I said, freedom is the freedom to choose
But the truth is not a choice.
What is real can only be revealed through scientific evidence. If what you believe cannot be verified this way it is time to change your belief.
I agree, but there are Christian scientists as well as non-christian scientists and you are free to believe who and what you want to believe. As for me, all I know is all I believe I have witnessed and all that logic and reason tell me, and the reasons I see for valuing the God revealed to me through the Jesus of the New Testament above all others are infinitely better than the reasons I see for not doing so.
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RE: Trinity
September 16, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Mr Pascal, page your office, please.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Trinity
September 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm
(September 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm)old man Wrote: I agree, but there are Christian scientists as well as non-christian scientists and you are free to believe who and what you want to believe. As for me, all I know is all I believe I have witnessed and all that logic and reason tell me, and the reasons I see for valuing the God revealed to me through the Jesus of the New Testament above all others are infinitely better than the reasons I see for not doing so.
But I say that you need to take your logic and reason a step further. You need to ask yourself, "If I were an atheist, what would it take for me to believe in Christianity?" Take a look at it from our side. Many of us have been Christians, or have extensively studied the Christian faith. Have you extensively studied atheism? If so, you would know that "faith" is not enough for us. We are seekers of facts, not hopes.
And yes, there are Christian scientists, but have you noticed that the church has brutally punished scientists over the centuries? Christians are slowly becoming more and more scientific, even accepting evolution, although with ad hoc arguments they apply it to the Bible. As man evolves, and becomes more and more scientific, the Christian faith grows weaker and weaker. It is in no immediate danger of elimination, but the only way it can keep its head above water is by accepting more and more of the truths that science teaches us.
Man cannot live by faith alone. Christians are slowly learning that. Slowly, but surely.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha
"Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- Dennis McKinsey
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RE: Trinity
September 17, 2013 at 3:37 pm
(September 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: (September 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm)old man Wrote: I agree, but there are Christian scientists as well as non-christian scientists and you are free to believe who and what you want to believe. As for me, all I know is all I believe I have witnessed and all that logic and reason tell me, and the reasons I see for valuing the God revealed to me through the Jesus of the New Testament above all others are infinitely better than the reasons I see for not doing so.
But I say that you need to take your logic and reason a step further. You need to ask yourself, "If I were an atheist, what would it take for me to believe in Christianity?" Take a look at it from our side. Many of us have been Christians, or have extensively studied the Christian faith. Have you extensively studied atheism?
Yes, I and members of my own family were greatly influenced by Darwin and atheism and as far as I know my brother still remains in an atheistic state of mind, similar to yourself I guess, with a touch of Buddhism.
Quote:If so, you would know that "faith" is not enough for us. We are seekers of facts, not hopes.
In my days of not knowing the truth I sought to know the truth as I explained earlier. https://atheistforums.org/thread-20242.html ...and whilst I find the concepts of evolution and natural repetition fascinating, I can't help being reminded that life on earth has clear hall marks of intelligent design.
Quote:And yes, there are Christian scientists, but have you noticed that the church has brutally punished scientists over the centuries?
Yes, there have been churches over the centuries that did not heed Christian doctrine and ended up brutally punishing anyone who they believed was threatening their personal beliefs and way of life.
Quote:Christians are slowly becoming more and more scientific, even accepting evolution, although with ad hoc arguments they apply it to the Bible.
Whilst this is true of many churches, there is still a strong and faithful Christian community across the world that can see very clearly how deceiving the human race is and where it is heading.
Quote:As man evolves, and becomes more and more scientific, the Christian faith grows weaker and weaker. It is in no immediate danger of elimination, but the only way it can keep its head above water is by accepting more and more of the truths that science teaches us.
How can we trust man's ability to reason correctly when he can't even stop destroying himself.
Quote:Man cannot live by faith alone. Christians are slowly learning that. Slowly, but surely.
Man alone cannot halt his slide into chaos and destruction and there is only one person who can. Hopefully many atheists will come to learn this also.
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