Satan Disproves Christianity

[downbeatplumb]

Satan is the king of lies.
The ultimate lie would be that he is god.
Satan could be god.


Except there probably is no god, but you can do this kinda shit with all the bibles assertions. it don't mean shit.

[themonkeyman]

It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

I thought this myself when I started comparing Demons and the Holy Spirit. E.g. when I was struggling in Christianity some people said that the Holy Spirit was alerting me of my sinful nature of comitting a certain sin. And yet others were saying it was a Demon.

Like the way you mentioned above Its not possible to be two completely different entities so how can 50% say either / or. This is why I looked deeper into them both and found common attributes.

See from what I am getting my head around is that people like Drippy will say you committed Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit yadda yadda yadaa. But the difference here is that the Pharasies said it in a completely different context.

They (Seen God / Seen His Miracles / Knew he claimed to be God and then said he was the devil)

On the other hand your statement like mine mearly is rasing logical points. We do not have Jesus around today / heck he even warned us about people professing to be Christians and false Prophets.

What you said above is 100% Correct though - How can you tell black from white when black can make you believe its white.

Jesus said a House Devided by itself cannot stand. He did not say that a House immitating itself cannot stand. God in Revelation said he would Decieve many to believe a lie!

As for you Drippy I would choose your words carefuly as surely that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit could be stretched to include any Christian Critizisting another Christian as technically you are talking evil of the Holy Spirit.

[John V]

It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

What's Satan got to do with it? You can be deceived by another human. You can deceive yourself.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

If you're deceived by another person, you don't know you're deceived. That's the nature of deception. Once you realize it, you're no longer deceived. Again, nothing special about Satan in this regard.

Regarding A&E, Paul notes that Eve was deceived, implying that Adam wasn't.

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

We don't know for sure. Christianity is a faith-based religion, you know.

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

You might want to think further on that.

[Bad Writer]

The biggest deception is that of religion itself. The contradicting nature within these religions is an extension of this fact.

[ThomM]

THere are so many things about Xtianity that undermines it - that using the Mythical Satan is hardly unique

Example - there is only ONE creator in Xtianity - the ONE GOD (No matter how many personalities) - and that creator is supposedly ALL GOOD - ALL JUST - ALL FAIR - and ALL Knowing as well as ALMIGHTY

IF the god was ALL KNOWING - it would have known that its creation would become Satan - and being all good it would have NOT created Satan

Being Almighty - there is NO fight between the god and any other creature - since the god should have the power to immediately and permanently eliminate the evil. Again being ALL Good would require that.

However - if the god is all knowing - and it knew it would create Satan - then it had no choice to create Satan - but that eliminated ALMIGHTY - since it can only do EVERYTHING it already knows - and cannot use free will to do something different.

IF course - it the god must do everything it already knows will happen - so must we - meaning that free will does not exist. IF our "choice" is already known before we exist- then when WE have the ability to make the "choice" we cannot choose FREELY among the options - we must choose what is already known - so NO free will can exist - even for the god.

But it doesn't take much to disprove xtianity - simply read the bible - from page one to the end - and it is so convoluted and so contradictory - and so evil minded - that a responsible and intelligent person could not possibly believe in xtianity after reading it.

[Bad Writer]

But it doesn't take much to disprove xtianity - simply read the bible - from page one to the end - and it is so convoluted and so contradictory - and so evil minded - that a responsible and intelligent person could not possibly believe in xtianity after reading it.

Caveat: put those rose-colored glasses down and read it.

[MindForgedManacle]

Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will arise and preform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Matthew 12:22-32 these verses are about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit but, within these verses is the lesson of a house divide and the teaching is a house divided will not stand... well it's been here for 2000 years and going strong.

GC

The fact that the Bible says that even the 'elect' can be deceived by false prophets who can perform actual miracles is damning enough for your theology and soteriology.

[Bad Writer]

@ GC

Speaking of the elect doing miracles, have you ever seen something that you have deemed miraculous? If so, how did you know it came from god?

[findingdoubt]

It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will arise and preform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Matthew 12:22-32 these verses are about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit but, within these verses is the lesson of a house divide and the teaching is a house divided will not stand... well it's been here for 2000 years and going strong.

GC

Well "the house" has been divided since its inception. "The church" is not unified.

I don't really know what the point of you quoting that verse is. Jesus probably didn't even say it. It's more likely the addition of the church to help encourage their followers not to believe in other Christ-figures.

---

It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

I thought this myself when I started comparing Demons and the Holy Spirit. E.g. when I was struggling in Christianity some people said that the Holy Spirit was alerting me of my sinful nature of comitting a certain sin. And yet others were saying it was a Demon.

Like the way you mentioned above Its not possible to be two completely different entities so how can 50% say either / or. This is why I looked deeper into them both and found common attributes.

See from what I am getting my head around is that people like Drippy will say you committed Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit yadda yadda yadaa. But the difference here is that the Pharasies said it in a completely different context.

They (Seen God / Seen His Miracles / Knew he claimed to be God and then said he was the devil)

On the other hand your statement like mine mearly is rasing logical points. We do not have Jesus around today / heck he even warned us about people professing to be Christians and false Prophets.

What you said above is 100% Correct though - How can you tell black from white when black can make you believe its white.

Jesus said a House Devided by itself cannot stand. He did not say that a House immitating itself cannot stand. God in Revelation said he would Decieve many to believe a lie!

As for you Drippy I would choose your words carefuly as surely that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit could be stretched to include any Christian Critizisting another Christian as technically you are talking evil of the Holy Spirit.

My favorite line of your's is "How can you tell black from white when black can make you believe its white."

Exactly.

So since the Bible's message isn't consistent for me to really believe it, it just makes for interesting and sometimes insightful mythology.

---

It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

What's Satan got to do with it? You can be deceived by another human. You can deceive yourself.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

If you're deceived by another person, you don't know you're deceived. That's the nature of deception. Once you realize it, you're no longer deceived. Again, nothing special about Satan in this regard.

Regarding A&E, Paul notes that Eve was deceived, implying that Adam wasn't.

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

We don't know for sure. Christianity is a faith-based religion, you know.

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

You might want to think further on that.

I don't think the idea of being deceived by Satan is the same as the idea of being deceived by another person. The whole premise of Satan in the New Testament is that he has special deceiving powers.

Case and point.

Paul says Satan can appear as an angel of light in 2nd Corinthians.
But he supposedly trusts the appearance of "Jesus" to him.
"Jesus" could have been Satan.
And he has no criteria through which to disprove it given his premises.

Not sure you really got my argument.

[themonkeyman]

Take a look at this passage:

Isa 14:12-15 (NIV) How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

This passage above is clearly referencing Satan but look at his title 'O Morning Star' 'Son of the Dawn' Now lets find something even more interesting.

2Pet 1:19 (NIV) And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Rev 2:28 (NIV) I will also give him the morning star.

Rev 22:16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

And look this passage is clearly referencing Jesus. He said so himself!

So considering God called Satan the Morning Star and also called Jesus the Morning Star. Its quite a very interesting position, I am not going to say that Jesus was Satan however I am aware that the Jew's strongly do not believe Jesus was God and based on the arguments of the Old Testament I can say that it is indeed possible to for someone to have a problem discerning Jesus and Satan considering how closely scripture links them together and also given the fact that like I said earlier. Darkness can appear as Light!