Satan Disproves Christianity

[Tonus]

I don't think the idea of being deceived by Satan is the same as the idea of being deceived by another person. The whole premise of Satan in the New Testament is that he has special deceiving powers.

Not really. Satan's primary means of deception, according to the Bible, is to lie or misrepresent the words of others. I agree that there are numerous problems with this, not the least of which is that his very first "lie" wasn't a lie. But his methods of deceiving people are pretty much the same as what people do. Hey, it works. Look at religion.

[John V]

I don't think the idea of being deceived by Satan is the same as the idea of being deceived by another person.

What's different about it?

The whole premise of Satan in the New Testament is that he has special deceiving powers.

Can you support this?

Paul says Satan can appear as an angel of light in 2nd Corinthians.

Human con men generally appear as good people. It's tough to deceive someone if you come across as a deceiver from the start. Again, this is an aspect of deception in general, not of Satan in particular.

---

Take a look at this passage:

Isa 14:12-15 (NIV) How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

This passage above is clearly referencing Satan but look at his title 'O Morning Star' 'Son of the Dawn' Now lets find something even more interesting.

2Pet 1:19 (NIV) And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Rev 2:28 (NIV) I will also give him the morning star.

Rev 22:16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

And look this passage is clearly referencing Jesus. He said so himself!

So considering God called Satan the Morning Star and also called Jesus the Morning Star. Its quite a very interesting position, I am not going to say that Jesus was Satan however I am aware that the Jew's strongly do not believe Jesus was God and based on the arguments of the Old Testament I can say that it is indeed possible to for someone to have a problem discerning Jesus and Satan considering how closely scripture links them together and also given the fact that like I said earlier. Darkness can appear as Light!

The Bible refers to both as lions, too. Gasp!

[findingdoubt]

I don't think the idea of being deceived by Satan is the same as the idea of being deceived by another person. The whole premise of Satan in the New Testament is that he has special deceiving powers.

Not really. Satan's primary means of deception, according to the Bible, is to lie or misrepresent the words of others. I agree that there are numerous problems with this, not the least of which is that his very first "lie" wasn't a lie. But his methods of deceiving people are pretty much the same as what people do. Hey, it works. Look at religion.

Right, that's interesting. The first lie in the Bible was told by God: "the day you eat thereof you shall surely die." Oh no they didn't

[Drich]

Not really. Satan's primary means of deception, according to the Bible, is to lie or misrepresent the words of others. I agree that there are numerous problems with this, not the least of which is that his very first "lie" wasn't a lie. But his methods of deceiving people are pretty much the same as what people do. Hey, it works. Look at religion.

Right, that's interesting. The first lie in the Bible was told by God: "the day you eat thereof you shall surely die." Oh no they didn't

But they did die.

Before they ate they were immortal beings who were slated to live forever. Their immortal life ended that day, and Adam's outside of the garden life began that day. He died to God and was reborn unto sin. The moment he ate his immortality died, and the clock on his mortal life began.

[Zone]

Satan is a useful bogey man to use against anyone you don't particularly like and to keep the faithful in line. As Anton Lavey said he's the best friend the Church ever had for helping keep them in business all these years.

[Bad Writer]

Right, that's interesting. The first lie in the Bible was told by God: "the day you eat thereof you shall surely die." Oh no they didn't

The moment he ate his immortality died...

You spin me right round, baby!
Right round!
Like a record, baby!

[Beta Ray Bill]

But they did die.

Before they ate they were immortal beings who were slated to live forever. Their immortal life ended that day, and Adam's outside of the garden life began that day. He died to God and was reborn unto sin. The moment he ate his immortality died, and the clock on his mortal life began.

Prove it. Without using the Bible or especially faith as an answer, provide some sort of undeniable proof that mankind was originally designed to live forever. Prove that ANY lifeform on this wonderful planet has eternal life.

If you can prove that the things written in Genesis about when man was made, what his attributes were and why man and/or woman suffer the way they do today is true (again, without using faith as an answer) and not myth, I'll see you in church!

[Tonus]

Genesis 3:4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

The part about when they die is interesting, in that some Bible translations (later ones?) remove the words "the day" in order to let god off the hook. If god is quoted telling Adam "if you eat, you will die" and the serpent is quoted telling Eve "you won't die" then all is well for the believer, as long as he accepts the new wording and rejects the old. (Or adds to the story in order to fill the holes in it, see Drich's reply above.)

But the serpent also tells Eve that two things would happen: her "eyes would be opened" and she would "be like god, knowing good and evil." In the following passages we're told that this is exactly what happens. Additionally, we discover that their eternal life was not inherent; they relied on the Tree of Life for their continued existence. Once access to that was cut off, they were doomed.

That last part is counter to the idea that they had 'an immortal life.' They never did. Their 'mortality clock' was always counting down-- only eating from the Tree of Life would reset it. God had them on a very tight leash, and when they disobeyed he yanked it very hard. This is god's version of free will; you're free to choose to do as you wish, but remember that only I have the antidote to the poison that is slowly killing you.

[Zone]

The Islamic sect of the Yezidis venerate Satan in the form of the Peacock Angel which is very cool. I think they're something like the Christian Cathars who also revered Satan as the god of this world though the Roman Catholics crusaded them to death.










Satan as a woman here.







I have a book somewhere that suggest that the Peacock Angel and Christ were one and the same guy, he was also Mithras and Hindu god for good measure. He also lives on the planet Venus.



You can see here look, peacocks wings, it's Satan there.

[max-greece]

"Prove that ANY lifeform on this wonderful planet has eternal life."

Its called the immortal Jellyfish....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula