A true Christian

[Tonus]

What's different about you, Tonus, since I assume most of your family and old friends are still in the faith? What do you think happened with you that doesn't happen with other believers? I'm always amazed that ANYONE gets out, when I hear a description like the one you just gave.

To be clear, I have not been formally removed by the organization. But I have not been active for more than ten years, and three years ago I stopped going to the annual memorial service that they practically consider mandatory. I get the impression that for those like me, who drift away quietly, they take the "see no evil" approach. Perhaps to pad the numbers, I dunno. In the past, they would've sent a committee to speak to me and formalize my removal from the organization.

I was probably lucky to grow up in the situation that I was in, which is to say that it must have helped created doubt. All of my siblings left the JWs early in their lives, and my desire to prove my faith against any possible assault probably was in response to that. And since my deconversion was very slow, I was able to develop friendships with non-JWs. So that by the time I was ready, I had the necessary support network and was not really attached to the cult.

I have read from many former (and even some current) JWs who suffered through a very painful process of wanting to get out but worrying about being cut off from their network of support (friends and family-- the JWs insist that non-JWs are to be cut off completely even by immediate family) which would force them to rely on the same people they'd been programmed to distrust and look down on. For some, taking the plunge proved to be as harsh as they feared, and some even bit the bullet and went back.

One of my closest friends has been on the bubble for a long time, and I think that he's ready to make the break but is clearly concerned about the fallout. He's planning to move out of state, and I think one reason is to break ties. I haven't pressured him to make a decision, but I am joining him on that move, which we'll make sometime next year.

[bladevalant546]

For me it was a painful process, being the samurai type loyalty I displayed it nearly marked as betrayal. To me to serve for much of my teenage life away as a christian only to find out it was wasted. It felt at first like I was abandoned, but then it settled into realization that there was no one watching over me at all. It over all made sense however a void was left in my life for over a year. It was not until I met my atheist girlfriend whom helped me break that mindset. However I can agree with Tonus, I was technically an agnostic (deistic leanings) long before i finally deconverted.

[Zazzy]

the JWs insist that non-JWs are to be cut off completely even by immediate family

This is disgraceful. No wonder your friend is having such a hard time. Most JWs don't really abide by this, do they? I mean- parents stop talking to their children? Not meeting their grandchildren if they're born outside of the faith? What does the church do to you if you refuse to comply and keep contact with an apostate?

Thank you for telling me this story, Tonus. It must take great strength of character to be able to do what you have done. Many kudos.

---

To me to serve for much of my teenage life away as a christian only to find out it was wasted.

Do you really feel it was wasted? Are you really all that different now? I've wasted a lot of my time doing dumb things I regret, but a lot of those things made who I am, and I like who I am, so I guess I don't regret them after all. Would you change that growing up experience to one like mine (atheist parents, no religious issues) if you could?

It felt at first like I was abandoned, but then it settled into realization that there was no one watching over me at all.

This is interesting. You were abandoning your faith, and were feeling like you had been abandoned. Were you feeling abandoned by your god? By the people who taught you all the nonsense?

This is really interesting to me- I hope I'm not boring the socks off everyone else with these continuing questions.

[Tonus]

Most JWs don't really abide by this, do they?

Sadly, they do. I've read and heard stories from people who have been cut off. It's particularly heartbreaking to hear from parents who are not allowed to see their children or grandchildren because their children refuse any contact with them. The organization has made minor changes to the policy from time to time, allowing a limited amount of non-religious-based communication under some circumstances. But that goes back and forth, and last I knew they were using the strictest approach again.

There are some who will not abide the rules all of the time, but they must do so quietly or risk expulsion from the religion, at which point they get to experience the same cold shoulder they were giving to someone else. It is interesting to note that such cults show that fear of angering god has nothing on the fear of losing family and friends, for many people. I agree that it is a particularly insidious practice.

[Doubting Thomas]

A true Christian is filled to the brim with Jesus.
...
...

A true Christian gets on his knees when Jesus is coming...

[konroh]

I was a strong christian and good apologetic and gained a lot of respect from the atheistic community, when I deconverted I was told I never was dedicated which was offensive to a person like myself.. If the christians here read this I am sure they will respond in that predicable manner.

I agree that's offensive. I would never say that you weren't a true Christian or not dedicated. I would actually believe that your salvation is still guaranteed, even if you still don't believe. Isn't that how it would work if there were an infinite God and we were finite creatures? At least it seems that's how it should work.

[Angrboda]

A true Christian is filled to the brim with Jesus.

I wanted to be filled to the brim with Jesus, but he kept promising a second coming which he never delivered.

We take so much of the universe on trust. You tell me: "In 1950 I lived on the north side of Beacon Street in Somerville." You tell me: "She and I were lovers, but for months now we have only been good friends." You tell me: "It is seventy degrees outside and the sun is shining." Because I love you, because there is not even a question of lying between us, I take these accounts of the universe on trust: your address twenty-five years ago, your relationship with someone I know only by sight, this morning's weather. I fling unconscious tendrils of belief, like slender green threads, across statements such as these, statements made so unequivocally, which have no tone or shadow of tentativeness. I build them into the mosaic of my world. I allow my universe to change in minute, significant ways, on the basis of things you have said to me, of my trust in you.

I also have faith that you are telling me things it is important I should know; that you do not conceal facts from me in an effort to spare me, or yourself, pain.

Or, at the very least, that you will say, "There are things I am not telling you."

When we discover that someone we trusted can be trusted no longer, it forces us to reexamine the universe, to question the whole instinct and concept of trust. For a while, we are thrust back onto some bleak, jutting ledge, in a dark pierced by sheets of fire, swept by sheets of rain, in a world before kinship, or naming, or tenderness exist; we are brought close to formlessness.

On Lies, Secrets, and Silence, Adrienne Rich, 1975

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I was a strong christian and good apologetic and gained a lot of respect from the atheistic community, when I deconverted I was told I never was dedicated which was offensive to a person like myself.. If the christians here read this I am sure they will respond in that predicable manner.

I agree that's offensive. I would never say that you weren't a true Christian or not dedicated. I would actually believe that your salvation is still guaranteed, even if you still don't believe. Isn't that how it would work if there were an infinite God and we were finite creatures? At least it seems that's how it should work.

At least you're not condemning us all to hell right off the bat. Refreshing to hear Welcome

[Ryantology]

I agree that's offensive. I would never say that you weren't a true Christian or not dedicated. I would actually believe that your salvation is still guaranteed, even if you still don't believe. Isn't that how it would work if there were an infinite God and we were finite creatures? At least it seems that's how it should work.

Salvation wouldn't be necessary if there was nothing from which to save us. Did Hell create itself? Is God incapable of saving people unless he gets some kind of magical energy which comes from people prostrating themselves at his feet nonstop?

My pet peeve about the idea of Christian salvation is that we are asking God to save us from God, when you get right down to it.

[Polaris]

Who really cares about being a "True" Christian? Just do good and listen.