If these resident theists really talk to god..

[Mystical]

two things your confusing an elite controller with a HIV controller. Elite's do not have a detectable amount of the virus in their blood. I left a article explaining all of this from aidsmeds.com

I linked this information in my last post.. Did you read it? Here, I re-highlighted the part about you. Like this. Unless you're saying your an HIV controller and not an elite controller, I'm not mistaken. Science has a grasp on what makes Elite controllers resilient, and it can be tested in you even now, if you really are one. That's why I say go help with the research, Drich, if you are surely sure about it. Just for the record: a PCP does not qualify as a reliable source for an HIV test unless you had a lab diagnose you.

According to HIV/AIDS researchers like Levy and Steven Deeks, a professor in the Department of Medicine at UCSF and faculty member of the Positive Health Program at SFGH, “long-term survivors,” or “non-progressors,” make up about 5 to 15 percent of HIV-infected individuals. These people manage to maintain very low or even undetectable amounts of HIV in their blood and remain healthy without the dramatic loss of CD4+ T cells characteristic of most patients with HIV infection. “Elite controllers” represent a special subset of this group, having HIV levels undetectable by standard viral load tests, without the use of antiretroviral drugs. Probably fewer than one in a hundred individuals infected with HIV meet this standard.

The question about defective HIV mutants is still an open one, but Levy and Deeks agree that a weak virus alone does not explain the remarkable survival of all elite controllers. “At the end of the day,” says Deeks, “I suspect that a subset of these people has been infected with a replication-incompetent virus. But, for the most part, when you can find the virus in controllers, it replicates quite well.”

In 1986 Levy and his co-researchers found that when HIV-infected CD4+ cells were placed, in culture, in the presence of CD8+ cells from long-term survivors, they stopped producing HIV. When the CD8+ cells were removed, HIV production resumed.

Levy’s work on CD8+ cells led him to another component of the frontline, innate immune system, plasmacytoid dendritic cells (PDCs). They not only produce interferon when challenged by viruses, but also interact to enhance the activity of CD8+ T cells. Long-term survivors have higher-than-average PDC counts, and elite controllers, higher still. Finding the mechanism by which they are triggered to release interferon is a second key focus of the Levy laboratory.

Although many elite controllers had clear evidence of potent HIV-specific T cell immunity, a surprising number failed to exhibit such a response. Deeks is also looking at why elite controllers have lower numbers of T regulatory cells compared to non-controllers.

They have found that the NK cells of elite controllers frequently express a unique cell surface protein or receptor that may regulate their function.


Power in Numbers: The Need to Recruit More Elite Controllers
With so many mechanisms, and combinations of mechanisms, potentially at work in elite controllers, assimilating data from large numbers of them will be crucial to make statistically significant observations. That’s why Deeks is collaborating with Bruce Walker and Eric Lander of the Broad Institute at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and a host of other scientists, health-care providers, and AIDS service organizations to grow an international consortium. Their goal is to recruit 2000 elite controllers around the world.

Those were the doctors words exactly. He said because of the skin lesions and the pos test he was sure I had advance symptoms and even brought me into his personal office and showed me the book he confirmed the diagnosis from. It had pictures with a guy covered with tthe same leasions I had disbursed in a very similar way.

HIV cannot be diagnosed with symptoms alone. It can be diagnosed with a low CD4 count or the following conditions or diseases:

---

http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/aids/f...pendix.htm
A person who has tested HIV positive is diagnosed with AIDS when:

the person's CD4 cell count falls below 200 cells/ml, OR
the person is diagnosed with any of the following conditions or diseases1:
Candidiasis of bronchi, trachea, or lungs
Candidiasis, esophageal
Cervical cancer, invasive
Coccidioidomycosis, disseminated or extrapulmonary
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis, chronic intestinal (>1 month duration)
Cytomegalovirus disease (other than liver, spleen, or nodes)
Cytomegalovirus retinitis (with loss of vision)
Encephalopathy, HIV-related
Herpes simplex: chronic ulcer(s) (>1 month duration)
Histoplasmosis, disseminated
Isosporiasis, chronic intestinal (>1 month duration)
Kaposi's sarcoma
Lymphoid interstitial pneumonitis (in children)
Lymphoma, Burkitt's (or equivalent term)
Lymphoma, immunoblasic (or equivalent term)
Lymphoma, primary, of brain
Mycobacterium avium comples or M. Kansasii, disseminated or extrapulmonary
Mycobacterium tuberculosis,any site (pulmonary or extrapulmonary)
Mycobacterium, other species or unidentified species, disseminates or extrapulmonary
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Pneumonia, recurrent
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Salmonella septicemia, recurrent
Toxoplasmosis of brain
Wasting syndrome due to HIV
A person who is HIV negative or of undetermined serostatus may be diagnosed with AIDS when other causes of immunodeficiency are ruled out and the person is definitively diagnosed with one of the AIDS indicator diseases listed above.
[/img]

---

(molluscum contagiosum isn't on the list of aids indicators diseases. It's just a consequence of low CD4 count and is typically found on the face in the case of HIV.)

So you're saying your CD4 indicators were below 200? Got the lab report?

Contracting the skin virus is very common, but it only ever presents with one or two lesions normally. It presents in patients with what is considered to be compromised immune systems by the dozens. It presents in patients with later stages of HIV/AIDS in the hundreds. I had them in the hundreds with in a weeks time. I had just quit my job ,and hired onto a new one. On the second day the manager told me to have my bumps looked at. No insurance no money, the doctors did not even want to see me.

So how'd you get seen then? And what tests were run? And how did you afford an elective procedure of the freezing of half of those dozens of lesions if you didn't have money?

read what I wrote again.

*Re-reading again.

• Fidel knows someone on his death bed who he has not witnessed, crying out to God for mercy. *Inflammatory
  
  
• Should I be sorry that I can speak of a death bed experience?? *Inflammatory
  
  
• When the blackness consumes him, he will cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. *Preaching
  
  
• That is how I know those 'elite controllers' were healed. Because I know they prayed. Even the ones who thought they were atheist. *Inaccurate
  
  
• How is your perception of my response any different than how I was treated after I shared my battle with a deadly virus? *No Evidence therefore Inflammatory
  
  
• You USED your father's condition as a panic stop to the conversation, and as leverage to try and dismiss everything I said. *Inflammatory
  
  
• Which was based on my own observation dealing directly with death. *Unproven
  
• This coupled with your response above makes you a terriable person and a hipocrite to boot. *Inflammatory Name Calling and Belittlement
  
  
• what is worse? failing to offer a platitude? or letting someone think their beloved Father is burning in Hell? *Stupid
  

I did not belittle anyone. I simple said Fidel could not possible know what was going through his fathers mind when he looked to his own death. No matter how you want to spin it.

Okay, re-read your last post that I just quoted in a list for you. Assuming that Fidel thinks his father is going to hell isn't belittling? Mmmk.
And another thing, you can't prove your assertion about peoples' reaction to your AIDS. That you then go and accuse Fidel of using his own sick and dying father to win a conversation is just inexcuseable, in my books. I didn't ask you for proof of your AIDS in the other threads, and I do believe it was you who questioned the validity of Fidels' claim that his father was indeed dying. Care to uphold the same burden of proof or you just want everyone else to take your first hand account as fact?

Only the person looking at his her mortality knows what they are thinking or whether or not they reach out to God.

Hmm this is the exact opposite of what you've been saying this whole time.

Drich quotes:

• Fidel knows someone on his death bed who he has not witnessed, crying out to God for mercy.
  
  
• When the blackness consumes him, he will (Concrete Adjective) cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured (Concrete Descriptive Adverb) every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. [PREACHING]
  
  
• I am asking you to allow me to pray that God strike you down with aids, cancer or whatever it takes for you to beg and or grovel for your life. Why? To simply prove the point that there are no atheist when you are staring down the barrel of eternity. That is how I know those 'elite controllers' were healed. Because I know they prayed. Even the ones who thought they were atheist.
  
  
• I said 'rest assured' because no matter how devoute one is to their atheism in life, in death we all tend to want to cover our bases. Meaning there is still hope for the eternal state of fidel's father.
  

The point of me saying anything to you people is the boldness in which you all seem to be able to speak for others.

Wow. I mean, do you even listen to yourself?

When most of you have never been in this situation let alone in the mind of the person you are speaking for.

Whether or not you were even in a life threatening situation is debatable.

Oh and are you saying his dad has to be suicidal in order to not pray to god on his deathbed?

no.

Then what exactly where you saying, then? Can't have it both ways, Drich.

I'm not going to rat anyone out for speaking their mind. For me it is not the unforgivable sin to wish someone would die.

Well you sure are indignant about supposed 'sins'. Until you post the name of the thread, I don't believe you even have One to submit to this forum for review.

It is worse to create or support a Gestapo state that you want to creat here.

I think it's worse to be too proud to admit when you are wrong. And so does the bible.

If you want proof get off your ass and look for it! I promise you it is there. I've looked for it and found it. One instance is in a place you've quoted from but there are also others you have not quoted from.

You have the burden of proof not me But nice try. Get off your ass and find it yourself, or retract your claims of maltreatment.

If you find it fine, if not that's ok too.

Because that would actually be good for you, huh? Make me spend hours looking for something that wasn't there.. I've already spent more time than I should on what I have submitted to the Kangaroo court so far!

Those who have made these comments know who they are and what they said. I am very content with the fact that their 'superior' morality allows me to be falsely accused of lying.

Everyone's shaking their heads wondering wtf you're talking about, actually. Might wanna back up your claim there, mate.

Never mind how I know this to be true... lets hear some more about this thrid hand account your discussing.

I don't think you understand the term correctly. Your not using it right in your sentence.

As you can see, that was what you said not me.

Second of all: You weren't on death's door like Fidels' father.

I was told with no insurance and no help with Meds I may have a year to live. So would you prefer death walk way to the door?

Well if you talk the talk, you better have walked the walk.

You had a rough couple of weeks? Drich, I've had a rough lifetime. I didn't just "think" I was dying, I almost physically died. And so did many members on this forum. I can't speak for them, but I can say that I find it ridiculously offensive that you think that you thinking you're dying (for two weeks) is the same as dying (which is fine, go for it), but don't then expect anyone to not think you're a major douche for speaking matter of factly about what state someone would be in emotionally or physically during a time as touchy as death, even though you know little to nothing about it.

it was a month total. And why do you believe the biggest event of my life happened here? This is just one little pit stop. It was a big deal at the time, and the last time I want to endure anything like that again, but again compared to everything else. This was easy.

No shit sherlock.

Assuming you speak of the truth with regards to you being an elite controller, there was surely a test that could have been performed to confirm this if you indeed got a legitimate diagnosis, which I[size=[medium] highly doubt.[/size]. Here are some of them listed. If you were diagnosed as such once, you are still one to this day. You weren't cured, douchely friend. [i]You're in remission

I think you've confused yourself with your choice source material. Here is something geared a little more towards the layman, and a little easier to understand.

http://www.hivcontrollers.org/hivcontrollers

This is what an elite controller is: Some HIV controllers are able to maintain levels of virus that are so low that they are termed "undetectable," these individuals have been described in the literature as elite controllers or elite suppressors.

I do not have a detectable viral load as per my last blood test. Sorry to Burst your bubble missy.

No worries, bubbles are still a floatin
I think you've confused yourself with your choice source material. Here is something geared a little more towards the layman, and a little easier to understand.

http://www.you'reanidiot.com

for some yes, for others no. It is to the 'others' I speak. If your not an 'other' then know my efforts are not really meant for you to benefit from. I am just using your posts as an opportunity to speak (dare I say preach) without breaking the rules to those who do find my words creditable.

Whose these 'others'? Are they imaginary too?

[Cyberman]

All this chat about not willing to entertain evidence to support claims, either of personal testimony of miracles for which we are expected merely to take your word or more mundane ones about death wishes and hatred, is all very familiar. Kent Hovind played the same tune for years about his doctorate qualifications, saying that only people who want to tear down his message by attacking the messenger are the ones asking about them. Over the years the story he told about his credentials got less and less credible. Then his, ahem, thesis got leaked and it was immediately obvious why he didn't want anybody getting hold of it.

Drich, as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to share the evidence for any of your claims under discussion, that's entirely fine. However, by going down that route you trade the benefit of choosing that option for the right to persist in making those claims, as well as the right to judge others based on them. Is that a deal worth making to you?

[Esquilax]

Drich, as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to share the evidence for any of your claims under discussion, that's entirely fine. However, by going down that route you trade the benefit of choosing that option for the right to persist in making those claims, as well as the right to judge others based on them. Is that a deal worth making to you?

Well, his claims lose their credibility, anyway. Knowing Drich's past behavior, I doubt he'll relinquish his hold over unsubstantiated claims and unwarranted judgment for anything. He's got those two things in a deathgrip.

[Cyberman]

That's what makes Hitchens' Razor (anything that be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence) so deadly to such claimants.

[Lemonvariable72]

Drich, as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to share the evidence for any of your claims under discussion, that's entirely fine. However, by going down that route you trade the benefit of choosing that option for the right to persist in making those claims, as well as the right to judge others based on them. Is that a deal worth making to you?

Well, his claims lose their credibility, anyway. Knowing Drich's past behavior, I doubt he'll relinquish his hold over unsubstantiated claims and unwarranted judgment for anything. He's got those two things in a deathgrip.

Given his behavior and the way he argues on these forums I think he is a attention seeker and possibly has a thing for being persecuted. In my experience attention seekers make up all sorts of shit for attention.

[Drich]

I linked this information in my last post.. Did you read it? Here, I re-highlighted the part about you. Like this. Unless you're saying your an HIV controller and not an elite controller, I'm not mistaken.

I am saying that a HIV controller and elites are seperate. Elites do not always present with a detectable viral load.

Science has a grasp on what makes Elite controllers resilient, and it can be tested in you even now, if you really are one.

i was told there are may 30 different reason as to the reason why elites can control their viral loads. And that it was more than likely a combination of several reasons and not just one. Without knowing what to specifically look for in a patient that does not have a detectable viral load, or the correct T cell markers one has to test for every possible combo to identify what chemical markers do present. Science has an idea of what is going on, not the absolute you believe.

That's why I say go help with the research, Drich, if you are surely sure about it. Just for the record: a PCP does not qualify as a reliable source for an HIV test unless you had a ]

I will look into it.

HIV cannot be diagnosed with symptoms alone. It can be diagnosed with a low CD4 count or the following conditions or diseases:
[hide]
http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/aids/f...pendix.htm
A person who has tested HIV positive is diagnosed with AIDS when:

In 1995/96 a positive aids test and a skin condition, was all that was needed to tell a 20 year old he had aids back then.

So how'd you get seen then? And what tests were run? And how did you afford an elective procedure of the freezing of half of those dozens of lesions if you didn't have money?

initially I used the old insurance card from my old job to get in to see the doctor and take the test that ran positive. When I returned they knew my insurance had been canceled, but agreed to see me on terms.. (Pay as you go more or less.) I wound up having to move back in with my dad, and he helped pay for most of what got paided up front.

read what I wrote again.

*Re-reading again.

• Fidel knows someone on his death bed who he has not witnessed, crying out to God for mercy. *Inflammatory
  
  
• Should I be sorry that I can speak of a death bed experience?? *Inflammatory
  
  
• When the blackness consumes him, he will cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. *Preaching
  
  
• That is how I know those 'elite controllers' were healed. Because I know they prayed. Even the ones who thought they were atheist. *Inaccurate
  
  
• How is your perception of my response any different than how I was treated after I shared my battle with a deadly virus? *No Evidence therefore Inflammatory
  
  
• You USED your father's condition as a panic stop to the conversation, and as leverage to try and dismiss everything I said. *Inflammatory
  
  
• Which was based on my own observation dealing directly with death. *Unproven
  
• This coupled with your response above makes you a terriable person and a hipocrite to boot. *Inflammatory Name Calling and Belittlement
  
  
• what is worse? failing to offer a platitude? or letting someone think their beloved Father is burning in Hell? *Stupid
  

I did not belittle anyone. I simple said Fidel could not possible know what was going through his fathers mind when he looked to his own death. No matter how you want to spin it.

[/
quote]Okay, re-read your last post that I just quoted in a list for you. Assuming that Fidel thinks his father is going to hell isn't belittling? Mmmk. [/quote] I did not say his father is going to hell. I said there was hope that he would have confessed his sins when not pretending to be the strong atheist.

And another thing, you can't prove your assertion about peoples' reaction to your AIDS. That you then go and accuse Fidel of using his own sick and dying father to win a conversation is just inexcuseable, in my books.

thankfully I do not use your 'books' to make the choices I have made in my life.

I didn't ask you for proof of your AIDS in the other threads, and I do believe it was you who questioned the validity of Fidels' claim that his father was indeed dying. Care to uphold the same burden of proof or you just want everyone else to take your first hand account as fact?

when did I do this? I've always took Fidel's story at face value. The only thing I pointed out was how monsterous it was to use the suffering of a loved one to win an arguement. This shame tactic does not work if you do not believe in what the other person says is not true.

.

Hmm this is the exact opposite of what you've been saying this whole time.

it is exactly what I have been saying this whole time. You douche bags twisted what I have said in order to demonize me inorder to straw man an arguement together.

Drich quotes:

• Fidel knows someone on his death bed who he has not witnessed, crying out to God for mercy.
  
  
• When the blackness consumes him, he will (Concrete Adjective) cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured (Concrete Descriptive Adverb) every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. [PREACHING]
  
  
• I am asking you to allow me to pray that God strike you down with aids, cancer or whatever it takes for you to beg and or grovel for your life. Why? To simply prove the point that there are no atheist when you are staring down the barrel of eternity. That is how I know those 'elite controllers' were healed. Because I know they prayed. Even the ones who thought they were atheist.
  
  
• I said 'rest assured' because no matter how devoute one is to their atheism in life, in death we all tend to want to cover our bases. Meaning there is still hope for the eternal state of fidel's father.
  

The point of me saying anything to you people is the boldness in which you all seem to be able to speak for others.

Again everything said here underscores one thing. That what an supposed atheist states publicly, about what he believes can potentially be the opposite of what he says or does when the cameras are turned off, and no one is looking. In other words Fidel's father could say nothing about God to Fidel and Fidel could assume his fathers disbelief remains in tact. When in fact Fidel's father could potentially be crying out to God when the weight of his situation becomes too great to bear alone. That is one aspect of all of this you all and all of your situations have overlooked. Is the time spent Alone.

Aids is unique or it was in the idea or fact that one did something to deserve the disease. So it not only took your life it took and destroyed who you were. How people saw you, and it made you a degenerate. Even years after this happened I did not date because I was afraid that it would come back and I would infect my gf, and I kept my distance and shied away from anything that could potentially put people In contact with my blood. Sports, riding, and the like. My left wing 'spiritual' nut bag father just knew my change in life style was because I was gay. Then he would bombard me with anti gay interventions. Tell me to be somewhere and the whole family would be there and try to talk me 'straight.'

The point of all of this is that despite what you may think is going on inside the mind of another you truly have no clue, even in a father son relationship.

Whether or not you were even in a life threatening situation is debatable.

you have the benfit of hindsight... I did not I feared, and cried, and then took years to rebuild my life.

---

All this chat about not willing to entertain evidence to support claims, either of personal testimony of miracles for which we are expected merely to take your word or more mundane ones about death wishes and hatred, is all very familiar. Kent Hovind played the same tune for years about his doctorate qualifications, saying that only people who want to tear down his message by attacking the messenger are the ones asking about them. Over the years the story he told about his credentials got less and less credible. Then his, ahem, thesis got leaked and it was immediately obvious why he didn't want anybody getting hold of it.

Drich, as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to share the evidence for any of your claims under discussion, that's entirely fine. However, by going down that route you trade the benefit of choosing that option for the right to persist in making those claims, as well as the right to judge others based on them. Is that a deal worth making to you?

I did not say I would not be willing to share evidence. I said per God's example will not be sharing anything with those who deny the existence of God. I also said I would be more than willing to share everything I have with a fellow believer willing to travel. I'll even buy Sunday brunch/lunch.

Otherwise why should I be subject to scrutiny that benfits me or my ministry in absolutly no way? What will happen is I will give you 'X' but will hold back any thing that identifies me personally. The conversation will eventually demand what I am not willing to share with people who I do not see as a brother or sister in Christ. So what is shared 'X' will be dismissed.

So I say, why not simply dismiss 'x' now and save us both some time. Because none of you have the right to ask for anything I am not willing to share in my private life.

Beside what I have experienced is for me, and my benfit alone. If you wish to experience this for yourself I would be more than happy to pray the prayer that had this happen to me, for you. That way you can have your own medical records, and your own story to tell.

---

Drich, as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to share the evidence for any of your claims under discussion, that's entirely fine. However, by going down that route you trade the benefit of choosing that option for the right to persist in making those claims, as well as the right to judge others based on them. Is that a deal worth making to you?

Well, his claims lose their credibility, anyway. Knowing Drich's past behavior, I doubt he'll relinquish his hold over unsubstantiated claims and unwarranted judgment for anything. He's got those two things in a deathgrip.

My credibility is the first thing that goes when someone hears or reads something they do not want to see/hear. It is far too easy to dismiss the indivisual than to accept an unfavorable word.

Again. I stand by my word. And if that is not enough for you then so be it. It does not change any part of who I am or what I have to say. I am a face value person. I will believe in people till they give me strong reason not to. I expect the same. The only thing I have given you to doubt me are the circumstances of a miricals. For you it is easier to dismiss me as a person than it is for you to accept that God works in people as He does in the bible. Why? Because your whole faith is built around the idea that God is not real. When I provide you a possibility that He is, and a way for you to find out for yourself in such a way as to have no doubt. It is easier for you to assume I am lying.

I have said this before. I am here to facilitate the 'choice' God has given all of us over to make. If this means loosing credibility in the sight of you people, then so be it. My personal pride does not demand to be held in esteem by any of you. That is because What I have to share is so important and so absolutely important everything else becomes meaningless.

What I am saying here do not take my experiences to heart. Ask or even persistently demand that God give you your own. Then hang onto something, because what ever God has In store for you will rattle so hard it will be the 'proof' you are looking for.

---

Well, his claims lose their credibility, anyway. Knowing Drich's past behavior, I doubt he'll relinquish his hold over unsubstantiated claims and unwarranted judgment for anything. He's got those two things in a deathgrip.

Given his behavior and the way he argues on these forums I think he is a attention seeker and possibly has a thing for being persecuted. In my experience attention seekers make up all sorts of shit for attention.

Time will tell.

[Minimalist]

I said per God's example will not be sharing anything with those who deny the existence of God.

Who gives a shit what you say?

[Faith No More]

For you it is easier to dismiss me as a person than it is for you to accept that God works in people as He does in the bible.

For you it is easier to dismiss our dismissals than it is for you to accept that people think you're nuts.

[Cyberman]

I don't dismiss you as a person, Drich. I'm not a xtian, so I don't judge people that way. I dismiss your actions as you have demonstrated them here in this forum. Like this passive-aggressive whining you're doing right now. If it's intended to engender sympathy, you can save it 'cos it ain't working. It's pathetic, actually.

[Drich]

I said per God's example will not be sharing anything with those who deny the existence of God.

Who gives a shit what you say?

The people who carried this conversation 24 pages and counting.

---

For you it is easier to dismiss me as a person than it is for you to accept that God works in people as He does in the bible.

For you it is easier to dismiss our dismissals than it is for you to accept that people think you're nuts.

No that's not true, I get what you think, I just don't care. I've seen too much, endured too much, been given well more than my share of good and bad and been carried through it all. For this I can not be silent, no matter what the mundane may think or say.

I offer a similar experience for you to experience.

---

I don't dismiss you as a person, Drich. I'm not a xtian, so I don't judge people that way. I dismiss your actions as you have demonstrated them here in this forum. Like this passive-aggressive whining you're doing right now. If it's intended to engender sympathy, you can save it 'cos it ain't working. It's pathetic, actually.

Sympathy for what?