Christians live in the past, atheists live in the present

[Angrboda]

....

[Minimalist]

Christians look forward to a future which has not been verified, ever, by those who have lived in the past and experienced the future.

I can dream of a future where I will be singing in front of 1 million screaming fans, but I prefer to dream of more realistic scenarios.

Christians do have quite a bit of assurance that everlasting life exists.

The Bible as a book proves itself to be true.

A saved person has God the Holy Spirit within them which bears witness.

What an absurd load of shit.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

So we can't actually know unless we believe, and we can't believe unless we know and we can't know unless.............

You will never know the inner witness until you believe in Jesus Christ as Saviour.

It only takes simple faith in Jesus Christ to be saved.

Saved from what? Another un-evidenced destiny that involves another un-evidenced being consuming my un-evidenced soul in an un-evidenced residence supposedly with fire and brimstone and lots of other frightening images that were surely designed to ensure obedience to the powers that be ?

It's ok, thanks, think I'll take my chances and just ignore all the assertions and circular logic you have to offer. But thanks for playing.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Is there any way to demonstrate this? There must be, you are saying that god himself dwells within those who are saved and bears witness. Or does he only demonstrate this to the person in question?

The Bible says that God does indeed dwell within the saved person. It would be hard to demonstrate that because God does not in this age of grace work by signs. Although many of the saved do indeed show such a changed life, it may indeed give external evidence.

However, the inner experience cannot be shown.

I will give you an analogy.
Say there is a hot stove.
You can tell a child that the stove is hot and to not touch the stove or they will be burned.
Now the child must believe what was told to them on faith.
They cannot know that it is hot unless they touch the stove.

If they do touch the stove, then they will now know.

I can tell you that a saved person does have the witness of God within them. You can choose to believe or disbelieve what I just said.

The only way to know what that experience is like is to actually get saved, and then you will know.

What do you mean? Do you not own a thermostat? Or oven mitts? Or the child can just put his hand over the stove and feel the heat. It's not that difficult.

[Minimalist]

Or the child can just put his hand over the stove and feel the heat.

I'd expect his kid to be as dense as he is.

[Faith No More]

Hoping to save you (and us) some time...

That already makes you a better saivor than Jesus.