And Hells come back to haunt me

[snowtracks]

I'll say to you like I have others death will answer this question ultimately.

GC

The answer will be "you're dead", but you won't hear a thing because you're dead.

no loss of consciousness between this life and the next. people will know exactly where they are instantaneously.

[Esquilax]

no loss of consciousness between this life and the next. people will know exactly where they are instantaneously.

Prove it.

[Brakeman]

no loss of consciousness between this life and the next. people will know exactly where they are instantaneously.

Do you understand that the brain cells create the "consciousness" that you experience? If you don't believe that, how do drugs like LSD affect your conscious mind?

[Godscreated]

I'll say to you like I have others death will answer this question ultimately.

GC

Listen, I'm being completely serious here: you don't know that. You are just threatening people now, and pretending to know things that you don't know.

I would remind you that this precise line was what got savedbygracethrufaith banned. Cut the shit: there's literally no useful or helpful purpose for that line.

It's not a threat, I do not use it as a threat and I've used it for three years and no one has complained before and some even agree, so NO I will not stop using it. That very statement was no problem before you got here, so stop your cry baby whining and grow up.

GC

---

Listen, I'm being completely serious here: you don't know that. You are just threatening people now, and pretending to know things that you don't know.

I would remind you that this precise line was what got savedbygracethrufaith banned. Cut the shit: there's literally no useful or helpful purpose for that line.

See the problem is that your Bible creates a little loop paradox here.

Two verses.

John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Matthew 18:9 - And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

First of all I never even mentioned that one goes straight to anywhere, you have read that into what I said, shame so many here like doing that so they can make something out of nothing. How do you know I do or do not accept let's say the teachings of the Adventist Church. Let me say this because it's what I've always meant the last three years I've used this statement. Death stops all the debate we have know, we will either as you believe lie in the dirt for the worms or be called before God at some point as I believe will happen. Ultimately death will answer the question, not your words nor mine, only death can answer and it will my friend. So you see I've not threatened anyone here, I'm making a true statement that not one person is going to get around.

[Esquilax]

It's not a threat, I do not use it as a threat and I've used it for three years and no one has complained before and some even agree, so NO I will not stop using it. That very statement was no problem before you got here, so stop your cry baby whining and grow up.

GC

In retrospect I really shouldn't have thought you would ever want to stop being a standoffish, dishonest douche, you're right.

[Godscreated]

Hi @GC,
When I first became a Christian I experienced the Spiritual High that everyone gets, I think its cobbled with Emotion / Having New Friends and everyone being super nice on the surface. You become very popular.

Yes, I agree that there is a high point one has when first coming to Christ and to many believe it will last and that's just not how life goes. Struggles abound for everyone.

What I had found is that although I tried to live by the teachings of Jesus I had the teachings of Paul to contend with, so when I hung out with sinner’s people said that I was casting pearls before swine.
When I listened to sinners view points and agreed I was called a Heretic. It even went so far as to people call me unsaved because I shopped on a Sunday.

There is no difference in the teachings, I truly do not know why you believe so. I'm taking what you say as the truth about the people you were going to church with.
I'm not real sure why they would tell you this as a new Christian, they should have as I know I would have, said it's not wise for a new Christian to be associating with people that are unlike you, you were a pup meeting with the wolves hanging out with the lost. Why would you agree with those who oppose what you had just become to believe, since I do not know what the differences were this is about all I can say. People that said you were unsaved because you were shopping on Sunday need to have there understanding of the scriptures examined. I do not think one should shop on Sundays and I would tell those who criticized you to stop eating out on Sunday as many Christians do.

The (Jesus) Christian does not exist today only the (Pauline) Christian, Unfortunately both these people had conflicting views.

Again I'm not sure how you could say this, actually a Christian should be using the entire Bible, I listened to a small part of a sermon just a couple hours ago and what part I was listening to came from the OT, yet the teaching idea came from Christ and was also a part of Paul's ministry. The scriptures are like a great tapestry, from the beginning to the end it's intertwined and woven into a complete life.

One thing that converted me was that Unforgivable Sin, How any God in existence could put a red button in-front of Christians (People who are actually on his side) like that. How could he word it in a way that is so generic that literally no-one knows what it means? Then my girlfriend made the comment. Why a God would let a Paedophile / Rapist and Murderer into heaven but exclude a Christian because they accidently pressed the red button?! That is the biggest injustice ever.

I know we have been over this many times, but first let me say this most people come to salvation because of the fear of hell, it's natural to happen that way because of the way Christ is preached today and because of over zealous Christians believing they can save people. Please always remember this, it's a truth spoken throughout the NT, no one absolutely no one comes to Christ until invited by the Father. So those who get out in front of God are trying to save those God may have not called yet, wasting time is what they are doing, with good intentions, but the church is not built on good intentions.
I know what the "unforgivable sin" is, it's rejecting the Holy Spirit and one can only do it so many times, then God could remove the Holy Spirit by whom He calls those to Christ, and without the conviction of the Holy Spirit one will never be saved, because one will see no need for salvation. Do you really believe God would use His Son's love for us by saying if you even think wrongly about the Holy Spirit even if you're a Christian you will go to hell, I mean really, we are reasonable adults here, right. God the Father would never treat Hid only Son in such a way. Here's some proof of that, I know you've heard this, Christ said," My Father feeds the sparrow every day and cloth's the flowers, so why do you think He would do less for you, I tell you that He does so much more for you, much you do not even know about. Now does this sound like a God who would try and trick someone, if that's not understandable to you how about this one, God allowed His Son to be tortured spit upon mocked and hung on a cross with nails piercing His wrists and feet and a sword ran through His side and just before Christ died the Father had to turn away from His Son because He became sin. Do you really believe that God the Father would trick those that were saved because of these very acts committed on His Son. If you do then all I know to say, you believed in a god that does not exist and I wish you had found the One I know.

So armed with my knowledge of the problems with Theology I prayed to God, I said:
‘Father – I am losing my mind here I need peace, If you don’t give me it me and you are no longer friends but I will seek to disprove your very existence, I know enough of the problems in your Word which will boost my distance in the path, Please don’t make me do this!’
And Gods Response ‘ …. ‘ Typical!

You must have really been confused and terribly misled to have prayed a pray of threat to an omnipotent and omniscient God. Do you really believe God was going to bend to your will, the One who holds all the power of the universe in His hands. Did you ever consider that God already knew the future and would direct you away from those that might be turned away from Him because of your threat. Do you really believe He would not stop you from hurting those He has given to His Son, really. You as a young Christian should have been taught that faith means two things first and most importantly it means to trust and then to be patient in that trust and allow God to teach you what His word has for you. To often, far to often people believe they need to know everything about God's word and look to get it in just a year or so. The greatest Christians that have lived will tell you as they have to others, the more you learn from scripture, the more you will learn how little you can know and that ten life times will reveal only a small amount of scripture. It is in the learning of what scripture holds for each of us that we find joy and that I am in awe of, that the scriptures can and do reach millions upon millions in every walk of life in every different way they need it astounds me. You see it's not about what you want to do for the God of creation and salvation, it's about what God will do through you for others that brings the greatest joys one can know. Remember God said He would not answer every prayer, hey He told Israel He would not even listen to their prayers for a time. That's why I say trust is the first and most important part of faith, because in time God will give to His children, those saved things they ask of Him spiritually.

At that point I said well if you exist and want me you know where I am – I won’t accept anything less than a revelation like Paul on the road to Damascus. I also said father this is your fault I do not believe.

What can I say to a man who would threaten the great and awesome God of salvation and expect anything. Let me say this before I forget, you have not seen the last time God will come to you, how do I know, by the way you speak, it's absolutely obvious, it will be up to you to deal with at that time. But if you're expecting a Damascus experience, well one never knows, but with that kind of revelation will come great responsibility. Remember the Holy Spirit usually speaks in a small still voice, yet it is heard over all the commotion of the world.

Obviously since this I have seen more evidence that God does not exist than when I started, an active God would not let all the problems in this world occur. Considering he wiped out the earth before and even destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah either this entire world as it stands is still not as bad as them or it could be that God does not actually exist.

You have seen no evidence that God doesn't exist, there is none, I've been on this forum for three years and have yet to see one tiny scrape of evidence. If there was do you really believe we would be having this conversation, we the Christians here are not stupid nor blind, we were where you've been. So what's the difference with us, simple, we trusted until God answered, we were faithful to Him because we wanted His love to be a part of our lives forever, we have learned that we have nothing to fear through that trust and everything to gain. If you ever have questions you do not want to air PM me, I'll do my best to give you an answer. Many here will say I'm trying to invite you to salvation but, remember Jesus said only the Father can do this and I do not pretend to take up the work only He can do.

GC

[Firstruth]

ok, being saved from hell is being saved from being born over and over into the present condition of 'desire' that can't be fulfilled by anything no matter what you do. If that isn't your situation or condition then hell will not mean much to you according to the Bible. It seems only those persons who come to the last level of ego consciousness (Maslov's hierarchy of needs) will you discover you are really in hell right here. Jesus is the name that means 'salvation of Yhvh' and his name means' I am that I am and I will be what I will be" showing a definite aim of evolution here. So Jesus is the "WAY" yhvh saves us, which is by 'entering us' (our desire) as the 'good will or intention' that fulfills it and transforms our sense of reality to a higher consciousness or consciousness of the source of all fulfillment.

[Brakeman]

ok, being saved from hell is being saved from being born over and over into the present condition of 'desire' that can't be fulfilled by anything no matter what you do. If that isn't your situation or condition then hell will not mean much to you according to the Bible. It seems only those persons who come to the last level of ego consciousness (Maslov's hierarchy of needs) will you discover you are really in hell right here. Jesus is the name that means 'salvation of Yhvh' and his name means' I am that I am and I will be what I will be" showing a definite aim of evolution here. So Jesus is the "WAY" yhvh saves us, which is by 'entering us' (our desire) as the 'good will or intention' that fulfills it and transforms our sense of reality to a higher consciousness or consciousness of the source of all fulfillment.

Before I try to sort out much of that word salad Can you tell us what denomination you are? Do you claim that the bible is the literal word of god?
If so can you point to the verse where we are born multiple times in sinful desire?

[snowtracks]

no loss of consciousness between this life and the next. people will know exactly where they are instantaneously.

Prove it.

the 2'nd Person of the Trinity said it. that's why eschatology is studied to learn about final matters. nature has truth but not all the truth; and that's the problem with truth, like the poet said: it like dust, just can't get rid of the stuff. it just keeps hanging around.

[snowtracks]

ok, being saved from hell is being saved from being born over and over into the present condition of 'desire' that can't be fulfilled by anything no matter what you do. If that isn't your situation or condition then hell will not mean much to you according to the Bible. It seems only those persons who come to the last level of ego consciousness (Maslov's hierarchy of needs) will you discover you are really in hell right here. Jesus is the name that means 'salvation of Yhvh' and his name means' I am that I am and I will be what I will be" showing a definite aim of evolution here. So Jesus is the "WAY" yhvh saves us, which is by 'entering us' (our desire) as the 'good will or intention' that fulfills it and transforms our sense of reality to a higher consciousness or consciousness of the source of all fulfillment.

not scientific, nor biblical...ugh.