godless pro-lifers

[Whateverist]

Since all the consequences of that behavior accrue to just one sex I can't help but feel the need to shut the fuck up about what women should do when they find themselves with a pregnancy they do not wish to carry to term.

But not all the consequences fall on the woman if you believe the embryo to be a human being, which is what Tiberius' point is. I don't agree with him, but his reasoning is that he is defending a human life.

I would have thought the woman's womb was the only portion of either prospective parent which would directly bear the brunt of any government intrusion.

Of course the person who would be born if the woman decides to carry the unwanted pregnancy to term has a very great stake in her decision. I'm simply unwilling to tell the woman what she must do with her womb. I wouldn't envy her the predicament she is in. There are no good choices available if she has good reason not to want the baby. Let the poor woman at least have the final say.

[Faith No More]

I would have thought the woman's womb was the only portion of either prospective parent which would directly bear the brunt of any government intrusion.

Maybe the only physical part of the parents, yes. But the man has an emotional stake in this, too, and if one believes the embryo to be a human, the embryo has more at stake than anyone.

Of course the person who would be born if the woman decides to carry the unwanted pregnancy to term has a very great stake in her decision. I'm simply unwilling to tell the woman what she must do with her womb. I wouldn't envy her the predicament she is in. There are no good choices available if she has good reason not to want the baby. Let the poor woman at least have the final say.

So, what if a woman has a week left until her due date and she decides she doesn't want the kid inside her anymore? Would you support her right to terminate the pregnancy simply because it is her womb?

I'm not disagreeing with you on the issue, mind you. I just think saying that a woman's womb is hers to do with as she wishes isn't a valid argument, because society makes all kinds of intrusions into people's lives when human life is at stake. Also, it doesn't address the objections of those that believe an embryo to be a human being.

[Cinjin]

I'm pro choice.

I'm different from most though. I think you should be able to change your mind right up until the child is 15 years old.



WHAT??


I think we'd have a lot better behaved teenagers if that was a working policy.

[Zazzy]

Maybe the only physical part of the parents, yes. But the man has an emotional stake in this, too, and if one believes the embryo to be a human, the embryo has more at stake than anyone.

It would be nice if all men respected women, but they don't. I have been a very active volunteer in clinics for years, and there are many men who are downright dangerous to their pregnant partners. Should men get a say? I have to say that although I have been with my partner for over 10 years and I love him more than anyone, I already know I am simply not going to endure a pregnancy and birth for any reason. Luckily we've had this conversation and he understands this. And of course a human embryo is composed of human cells, but that doesn't make it a thinking, feeling human being like me. If I had a miscarriage and was relieved about it- what does that mean about me?

So, what if a woman has a week left until her due date and she decides she doesn't want the kid inside her anymore? Would you support her right to terminate the pregnancy simply because it is her womb?

This is a ridiculous question. It's possible that the fundie anti-choice faction could drag a story or two up about this, but abortions do not occur even close to this late unless the mother is in serious peril. Less than 2% of abortions happen after 20 weeks, and most of those before the 24th. Late-term abortions are extremely rare, and are usually for harrowing reasons. It's an unnecessarily inflammatory hypothetical.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the issue, mind you. I just think saying that a woman's womb is hers to do with as she wishes isn't a valid argument, because society makes all kinds of intrusions into people's lives when human life is at stake.

And I'm saying I don't care. No one but a rapist will ever control my genitals. Short of tying me down, you cannot make me stay pregnant if I don't wish to. You can force poorer and less educated women, but that's pretty shitty.

Also, it doesn't address the objections of those that believe an embryo to be a human being.

I'M a human being. I own my vagina and uterus. They're MINE. I can evaluate arguments cogently and accept or reject them. If this bothers you, too bad. You can throw in with the faction that treats poor women like breeding stock, or you can have your opinion and tend to your own uterus. And if you don't have one, then you are still entitled to your opinion, but it isn't worth much to me if I come to that very personal decision.

[Mystical]

I'm pro choice.

I think you should be able to change your mind right up until the child is 15 years old.

[Cinjin]

Brilliant!