The Problem of Evil and the Free Will Defense

[Faith No More]

Yes. That's from whence fallen angels come.

That sitll isn't sufficient, though, as it fails to address the true essence of the problem. The problem of evil is a problem because of the undue suffering it causes human nature, and the defense is the theist's attempt to reconcile its existencd with an omnipotent and benevolent god. If we are to differentiate between evil and "potential evil," as you call it, that doesn't explain why god sees fit to allow his creation to suffer when heaven is proof that it isn't necessary. Rather than reconcile the real issue, you've simply sidestepped it.

[Ryantology]

2. the idea of a world where everyone freely chooses not to do evil doesn't seem logically absurd. therefore it is possible for God to create free creatures without evil, therefore your argument is invalid.-- though this may seem like a reasonable objection, it fails to consider a few things. we aren't talking about a single variable, but a multitude of variables. if you considered a single person, you could come up with a multitude of experiences he has that allow him to choose what is good every time. however, this is just a single person experiencing things by himself. when you have a bunch of people, they often base their decisions off other people's decisions. if they see someone's choice, they may choose something different just because they want to see the outcome. so in a nutshell, it may be possible for a single person to freely choose good every time but not a large group of people yet alone the amount we have in our world. people who are able to choose differently will choose differently.

You've made a poor objection to an excellent point. We have consciences which, to a Christian, is the whispering voice of our moral core. Why did God choose to not make our conscience either much more persuasive or even impossible to ignore? It wouldn't violate free will any more or less than giving us the weaker consciences we already possess, because we already have obvious limits on our ability to exercise even the biblical idea of free will. I can't choose to hold my breath until I die, for one example.

The Christian free will argument is only an excuse for Christians to shift the blame from God to humans for all of the flaws in God's alleged creation, the same way some people blame rape victims by asserting that they are doing things that make them get raped, as if the rapist has no control over the situation.

[Beta Ray Bill]

that doesn't explain why god sees fit to allow his creation to suffer when heaven is proof that it isn't necessary.

Not to sound like a dick, but didn't my last post make any sense? Evil, the one thing heaven must be without, is something it needs to exist. Total nonsense.

[Neo-Scholastic]

The problem of evil is a problem because of the undue suffering it causes human nature, and the defense is the theist's attempt to reconcile its existencd with an omnipotent and benevolent god.

Doctor: You should stop smoking.
Patient: Why?
Doctor: Because it will give you cancer.
Patient: But I like smoking.
Doctor: It's a free country.

(10 years later)

Doctor: You have cancer.
Patient: Why couldn't you make me stop?
Doctor: Because, its a free country.

[Jackalope]

Yes. That's from whence fallen angels come.

Seriously? Angels? Do you also believe in goblins, pookas, leprechauns, and the like?

Boru

Hey, now. What the hell do you have against pookas?

Them's fighting words.

[Ryantology]

Doctor: You should stop smoking.
Patient: Why?
Doctor: Because it will give you cancer.
Patient: But I like smoking.
Doctor: It's a free country.

(10 years later)

Doctor: You have cancer.
Patient: Why couldn't you make me stop?
Doctor: Because, its a free country.

I think it's almost my job to replace bad Christian analogies here with ones more appropriate to their beliefs.

God: You must eat food.
Human: Why?
God: Because you'll starve to death if you don't.
Human: But, my land is ravaged by famine and I am too poor to leave!
God: You have free will.

(10 days later)

God: Looks like you're dying of starvation.
Human: Why did you not give us food? We had nothing to eat and the bandits steal whatever we do find!
God: You had free will.

[max-greece]

"3. if God is morally perfect, he wouldn't want evil in the world."

If this is a basic tenet of the argument then you cannot go on to define morality as:

"moral evil is the deliberate disobedience against God and his commandments."

This makes defining God as "morally perfect" a nonsense.

I'm going to have another go at this - because either I am missing something or I am not expressing myself very well:

There is nothing in the definition of moral perfection in the above to relate it to the concepts of good and evil.

If moral perfection is to follow God's commandments then those commandments could be good, or evil, or neither.

For example:

God issues a commandment not to eat pork.

There is nothing inherently evil about eating a pork chop as against a beef steak.

Or:

God instructs a man to sacrifice his son to him.

This is an inherently evil commandment and a totally pointless one. You cannot argue a "test of faith" case for an omniscient god. He already knew what the man would do.

We can conclude therefore that whether or not one follows God's morality is entirely independent of good and evil in an objective sense.

Therefore you can't even state:

"3. if God is morally perfect, he wouldn't want evil in the world."

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Hey, now. What the hell do you have against pookas?

I have a pathological fear of all things horsey.

Boru

[Tonus]

I have a pathological fear of all things horsey.

Accidentally walked in on a "Brony" convention once?

[YahwehIsTheWay]

...when I cover the subject of God, the nature of his omniscience and our free will.

While you're at it, can you cite me chapter and verse where this "free-will" thing appears in sacred scripture?

You strike me as one of those Cafeteria Christians who make up their own religion based half on cherry picked verses and half on their own imagination.