Computer Scientists "prove" God exists

[freedomfromforum]

But since it wasn't you I was quoting, why single me out? Why didn't you simply request it of everyone?

Perhaps I should have done so, and I sincerely apologize if you felt challenged or threatened by my post in any way. I was simply using your post to make a point, and I demonstrated in my post how to do what I was requesting. I seized an opportunity that presented itself without weighing all considerations prior to doing so. In the future, if I find a need to make a clarification, I will do so in more a more proper manner. I'm sorry.

[Brian37]

If you begin by simply assuming God exists with NO justification, then you can't claim to arrive at knowledge that he exists: you just assume he does through faity, by your own admission. You've given up 'nothing', and gained just as much in return.

Faith and assumption are two very different things. Scientist make assumptions all the time and pursue them to the end, no evidence, no proof they follow what they think is correct. You've given no proof of why faith can not lead to knowledge, you just assume I can't.

I should have made this clearer, not being able to deny God comes at the judgement, obviously, during one's time here one can deny God's existence. God will show those who deny Him here where the made their error, everything and I mean everything will be revealed at the judgement.

So in other words, God will reveal himself to exist on Judgement Day, but not now. Since he will not reveal himself now, billions upon billions will go to Hell because of his deliberate inaction. Voila, he is either incompetent or evil.

That's not what I said and you know it, twisting words is nothing more than deception. There are 100's of millions alive today that have come to know God because He has revealed Himself. God will reveal at judgement how those who decided to reject Christ had the opportunity and rejected Him. God's action is very apparent when one wants to see it, putting blinders on will be no defense at the judgment.

God says everyone will bend his/her knees and bow their before Him, and say, yes you truly are the King, this also occurs at the judgement. Rejecting God now is your only and free decision you can make in your present life or accepting Him into your life. Again sorry for making this confusing before.

GC

So great, the whole thing is a farce. If such is my only 'free' decision, I never had the capacity to do otherwise. Which necessitates that I never actually chose whether or not to accept God exists since the entirety of my life leading up to and deciding that was predetermined. So it is not a 'free' choice in any sense of the word. Try not to contradict yourself, okay?

No, you have the choice to choose Christ or reject Him, this is the one area God will never interfere in your choice. The rest of your life may not be so, all depends on God's ultimate will. Your life is not predetermined and if you believe that you live a defeated life, now that would truly be tragic. For someone who claims to be a person of reason you have a distinct habit of laying it aside when it comes to God.

GC

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What the ever loving fuck do you mean he doesn't threaten?

Hell isn't even like a parent saying "If you don't clean your room, you cant go out and play"

Hell is "If you don't clean your room I will butt fuck you with a barbed wire condom and I will do so for eternity"

You are a dishonest person, you are making accusations you can not prove, I would suggest you get busy proving what you have stated. You're anger at God and His children it shows in dramatic style, why not try a more rational approach.

GC

Exqueeze me?

Please tell me what happens for eternity to those who simply say "I don't want to hang out with you"?

If you are claiming the outcome is farting butterflies and ice cream if you don't kiss his ass, I am at a loss.

[MindForgedManacle]

I already pounded GC's ridiculous 'arguments' which he ignored, so I think he won't be visiting this thread much.

[Godscreated]

Hundreds of writers, really. I've never seen a book that disproves the existence of God, what does one look like?

GC

(bold added)

Neither have I, but if mankind survives religion long enough, perhaps we may one day see just such a book. For the record, I never said I read a book that disproves the existence of god. I said there are thousands of science books, which lean more than a little more heavily toward my arguments, supported by said books, as being more realistic and plausible than those of most theists.

We are talking about two very different worlds, one that our small minds are trying to comprehend and then there's the spiritual which does not necessarily follow the physical world. God has made these two worlds to exist in harmony, then man decided to take matters in his own hands and bad times rolled in.

GC

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Exqueeze me?

Please tell me what happens for eternity to those who simply say "I don't want to hang out with you"?

If you are claiming the outcome is farting butterflies and ice cream if you don't kiss his ass, I am at a loss.

Is there an excuse for you. Well let's see those who want to live with God for eternity and accepts Christ as their savior will be in paradise forever. Those who do not want to live with God forever by rejecting Christ will not have to live with God. Now since there are only two places to live in eternity and those who do not want to live with God have to live in the second place, simple really. Two choices and you will be given the one you want, that's the one without God, does this make you feel better?

GC

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I already pounded GC's ridiculous 'arguments' which he ignored, so I think he won't be visiting this thread much.

take another look.

GC

[orogenicman]

But since it wasn't you I was quoting, why single me out? Why didn't you simply request it of everyone?

Perhaps I should have done so, and I sincerely apologize if you felt challenged or threatened by my post in any way. I was simply using your post to make a point, and I demonstrated in my post how to do what I was requesting. I seized an opportunity that presented itself without weighing all considerations prior to doing so. In the future, if I find a need to make a clarification, I will do so in more a more proper manner. I'm sorry.

No problems. I understand how to do it. The reason I didn't is because I didn't want to quote all of that rant, just the one sentence I wanted to address. And I did include the person's name with the quote. Interestingly, he has yet to respond to it.

[Muslim Scholar]

I study both computer science and philosophy in school. I find this dubious. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with Gödel's work outside his incompleteness theorems. But if the article accurately summarizes Gödel's attempt at an ontological proof of God's existence, then he would seem to have made the same fatal conceptual error that St. Anselm made: Treating existence as a precicate, a property. Philosophers widely consider this a problem, since there doesn't seem to be any actual difference between imagining something, and imagining that something as existing.

Edit: The article just seems to indicate the theorem is valid, right? Soundness unknown?

Gödel said about Islam: "I like Islam, it is consistent [or consequential] idea of religion and open-minded"

[Silver]

Gödel said about Islam: "I like Islam, it is consistent [or consequential] idea of religion and open-minded"

He clearly knew not of which he was speaking.

[Zen Badger]

And does god talk to you?
And do you talk to him?

Of coarse, how else do you have a relationship with someone, you know of a different way.

GC

Ok, since you and god are on such a one to one basis....

Where is Madeline Mcann?

[LastPoet]

ac·cu·sa·tion
/ˌakyəˈzāSHən,ˌakyo͞o-/
(noun)
"a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong."

I made no accusations. I made a firm, respectfully worded, suggestion of my own regarding ever being quoted by another member.

Misquoting is against the forum rules and the way you came across is that you were claiming that orogenicman did it, that by the forum rules is something wrong, when clearly he wasn't. I think it qualifies as an accusation from where I'm standing. Nevertheless, I understand you meant no harm. I apologize for being blunt, but I did it for you to get a little of your own medicine. I guess I was being a dick, afterall.

If people choose not to properly respect specifically requested behaviors as they may pertain toward me, then I cannot prevent that. I asked for consideration and respect, that is all. If my direct tone seems callous then you may address that, but please, again being polite, I ask you not to make accusations regarding accusations I have not made.

Your tone was a bit callous, yes. I hope my suggestions aren't completely dismissed, here what is to retain:

1- There is nothing in the forum rules that demand a user to add the PID to the quote header (the green arrow). All that is demanded is for the content and attribution of quotes to be accurate.

2- If you wish to advise users on the respect and consideration towards you, please make sure to clarify that it is towards you and not a general rule of the forum. Confusion in newer members can arise. Although you can remember other users of the forum rules and advise them if they are breaking (or about to break) them, all we ask is to please be accurate in doing so.

Either way, I'm not making a big deal out of it and hope you don't take to heart what I've said. In other words, chillax, I'm not mad nor do I want to become.

[Esquilax]

Faith and assumption are two very different things. Scientist make assumptions all the time and pursue them to the end, no evidence, no proof they follow what they think is correct. You've given no proof of why faith can not lead to knowledge, you just assume I can't.

Faith can't lead to knowledge because knowledge is, by definition, demonstrable. Faith, on the other hand, cannot be demonstrated, by definition; you'd have no need for faith if you actually knew the thing was there, right?

And, my curiosity has gotten the better of me: what assumptions do scientists make?

No, you have the choice to choose Christ or reject Him, this is the one area God will never interfere in your choice. The rest of your life may not be so, all depends on God's ultimate will. Your life is not predetermined and if you believe that you live a defeated life, now that would truly be tragic. For someone who claims to be a person of reason you have a distinct habit of laying it aside when it comes to God.

GC

Except that god has interfered with all of our choices regarding this matter; he's limited it to only two choices, when there's clearly a third.