Yahweh, the Devil, and Job

[John V]

It just doesn't work McFly. Which is why you MUST disagree. My advice is to renounce or at the very least revamp your theology - it's got you on the slo-boat

Interesting. McFly was the protagonist. Your derogatory use of it shows that you identify with the antagonist in that story. Likewise in Job, you identify with the antagonist.

[Dionysius]

What's to comprehend? When a Judge sends a person to the gas chamber who is guilty of the execution, the one doing the sentencing (supreme authority) or the one mixing the chemicals (executioner) which kills?

Bad analogy. God doesn't order Satan to do anything. He says that Job is in Satan's hands. Satan could have decided he didn't want to torture Job. How you guys ignore this point is beyond me.

If the executioners reason for existing is to execute people and the supreme lawgiver removes the protective laws which protect said person from the executioner who is responsible for the execution?

Maybe a different analogy. We have one nuclear missile resting expectantly in a silo somewhere. The missles A.I. only knows that it must surmount every obstacle it encounters (i.e. counter-measures) to reach it destination and KILL millions of people - that's its job, to destroy. Yet it cannot do anything until someone presses the button and activates it.

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It just doesn't work McFly. Which is why you MUST disagree. My advice is to renounce or at the very least revamp your theology - it's got you on the slo-boat

Interesting. McFly was the protagonist. Your derogatory use of it shows that you identify with the antagonist in that story. Likewise in Job, you identify with the antagonist.

I am the Prince of Darkness.

[Tonus]

if god already knew the outcome of the bet

The far more fascinating consideration (IMO) is based around the premise that the future is not fixed and therefore god did not know the outcome. Job, for all of his positive qualities, was still an imperfect human. What if he had failed the test, by renouncing god? Would that have proven Satan right and god wrong? And what would the implications of that be?

[Mystical]

Oh but god knows every hair on your head. Even before you're born. Revelations foretells future events. God would have to know what Job would have chosen.

No?

[Captain Colostomy]

if god already knew the outcome of the bet

The far more fascinating consideration (IMO) is based around the premise that the future is not fixed and therefore god did not know the outcome. Job, for all of his positive qualities, was still an imperfect human. What if he had failed the test, by renouncing god? Would that have proven Satan right and god wrong? And what would the implications of that be?

One could also wonder 'What if Paul Atreides had succumbed whilst under the influence of the Water of Life in Dune?'

Plot devices in fiction typically serve a purpose, even when the story is farfetched.

[Faith No More]

So, you are a Christian? If you're not then I fail to see why or how the statement bothers you so.

Catfish just likes to whine. It's best to just let him have his fit and ignore it.

[Doubting Thomas]

So, you are a Christian? If you're not then I fail to see why or how the statement bothers you so.

Catfish just likes to whine. It's best to just let him have his fit and ignore it.

I think Catty is bipolar when it comes to religion. Some days he implies he's a Christian, other days he implies that he's not. It would be nice if he just explained what his beliefs actually are.

[Tonus]

Oh but god knows every hair on your head. Even before you're born. Revelations foretells future events. God would have to know what Job would have chosen.

No?

There are a number of ways to approach that question. We can assume that god can see the threads of the future and select (by his actions) the one he wishes to pursue. Or that the future cannot be changed and god is simply along for the ride. Or that god can "see into our hearts" and thus judge whether or not we could handle a particular situation or event. Each of these has its own considerations (or problems, if you will).

I'm just wondering what would have been the consequences of Job failing. What if he was simply pushed beyond his ability to take any more and cried out as his wife had suggested? What if he cursed god and died? Wouldn't that mean that god was wrong and Satan was right? What would happen then? Does god admit defeat and leave for another reality? Does he just make all of the witnesses disappear and clean up the mess? Does he turn back time to the start of the book and change the script?

[John V]

If the executioners reason for existing is to execute people and the supreme lawgiver removes the protective laws which protect said person from the executioner who is responsible for the execution?

You haven't shown that Satan's reason for existing is to execute people. There were plenty of other people in job's time who apparently didn't have a protective hedge about them.

Maybe a different analogy.

Yes, lets. I liquidate my investments, put the cash in my living room, and put a big sign up outside that says "Lots of cash inside and doors are unlocked," because I want to prove that people are good and won't steal the money. The guy who comes in and takes it is still guilty of stealing, despite my practical invitation to do so.

[catfish]

Catfish just likes to whine. It's best to just let him have his fit and ignore it.

I think Catty is bipolar when it comes to religion. Some days he implies he's a Christian, other days he implies that he's not. It would be nice if he just explained what his beliefs actually are.

So, time for the True Christian™ game.

You go first.