Things I learned in church

[T.J.]

Just thought I would share some quotes from Christians I have interacted with that still to this day stands out in my mind. Even theists that I have shared these with have done double takes at them so I'm really interested to see what you guys think about these.

Good people go to hell, saved people go to heaven.

I was told this by the pastor of the baptist church I went to. It's interesting to me because usually they'll justify it by saying the people have done bad things, but he is actually bold enough to use the word good. But wait, there's more:

Satan doesn't torture people in hell, God does.

I wish I was joking. This is usually where they blame Satan. Not this time. The idea that God tortures people for eternity for not believing in him isn't too much of a stretch if you researched the old testament. He isn't exactly shy about getting his hands dirty. But the idea that there are people who actually accepts it is kind of terrifying...

People will believe anything to avoid the truth.

This speaks for itself.

Global Warming doesn't exist because there's no proof that it does.

....

Harry Potter is bad, he breaks the rules and gets his friends in trouble and magic is bad. Also, wizards are fighting other wizards, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Paraphrasing since I can't remember the exact quote, but still. Huh? 1.) It's a work of fiction. 2.) Was there really a need to throw the bible quote in there?

Lesson: how to witness to cults

Okay, this sounds interesting. What do you got?

Cults: Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Wiccans

one man's cult is another man's religion.

People who believe in evolution are only throwing mud at the wall in the hopes that it sticks.

If that's them winging it I DO NOT want to see them when they're using their brains.

So, thoughts? Comments? Have anyone heard similar lines before or have their own they would like to share? Floor's open.

[Lion IRC]

I hear tons of things I disagree with.
I'd hardly call that "learning".

[Brakeman]

Good people go to hell, saved people go to heaven.

"Satan doesn't torture people in hell, God does."

So if god gives mankind the "equal to god level" ability to judge right or wrong, and we say that there are good people that god will send to hell, then by definition, god is an evil monster.

How does god "let go?" I mean, according to the story, god created everything and his "energy" powers everything. So if Hell is burning a person, it was god that made the fire, the heat, the pain, and it is him that tells the torture victim's brain to scream in agony. He can't divorce himself from his own "god powered" creation.

Ahh, But christians can't see the obvious.

[Einharjar]

---

Just thought I would share some quotes from Christians I have interacted with that still to this day stands out in my mind. Even theists that I have shared these with have done double takes at them so I'm really interested to see what you guys think about these.

Good people go to hell, saved people go to heaven.

I was told this by the pastor of the baptist church I went to. It's interesting to me because usually they'll justify it by saying the people have done bad things, but he is actually bold enough to use the word good. But wait, there's more:

"Satan doesn't torture people in hell, God does."

I wish I was joking. This is usually where they blame Satan. Not this time. The idea that God tortures people for eternity for not believing in him isn't too much of a stretch if you researched the old testament. He isn't exactly shy about getting his hands dirty. But the idea that there are people who actually accepts it is kind of terrifying...

People will believe anything to avoid the truth.

This speaks for itself.

Global Warming doesn't exist because there's no proof that it does.

....

Harry Potter is bad, he breaks the rules and gets his friends in trouble and magic is bad. Also, wizards are fighting other wizards, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Paraphrasing since I can't remember the exact quote, but still. Huh? 1.) It's a work of fiction. 2.) Was there really a need to throw the bible quote in there?

Lesson: how to witness to cults

Okay, this sounds interesting. What do you got?

Cults: Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Wiccans

one man's cult is another man's religion.

People who believe in evolution are only throwing mud at the wall in the hopes that it sticks.

If that's them winging it I DO NOT want to see them when they're using their brains.

So, thoughts? Comments? Have anyone heard similar lines before or have their own they would like to share? Floor's open.

---

I'll answer each numerically from top to bottom.

1 - This pastor was right, from the Christian view point. True Christianity preaches that it doesn't matter how good you are, it's if you've accepted Christ as your Savior that gets you to heaven. Even pedophiles can make it heaven when good willed people like Mahatma Ghandi may not simply because of being "Saved" or "Not Saved". Now, to "save itself", Christianity has a fail safe in the Book of Revelations that makes this bias sound a lot less punishing. See "The Great White Throne Judgement".

2 - Again, this is actually accurate to Biblical scripture. Satan has no dominion over Humans in the after life. Satan actually only "owns the Earth" according to the Bible. because Satan is supposed to have no power over human souls, the best way to "hurt God" is to simply make us choose him instead of God in a childish Vengeance scheme. After the Tribulation period (the prophetic biblical apocalyptic era) it is revealed that those whom still choose to not accept Christ and God as their masters are thrown into the "Abyss", which is the "Hell" we all think of. The Abyss is created by God for punishment of his subjects. Even Satan is casted into it to be tortured for eternity.

3 - And thus people believe Christianity for this reason. Haha. I love the irony.

4 - Yeah, I agree with you. "..." There is proof via ice core samples and more. Hell there is proof that Global Warming is a natural cycle and has occurred many many times, it's just that our industrial created green houses gasses happen to be speeding up the current cycle's process; which, needs to stop.

5 - Harry Potter is still quoted as a threat to the church? Damn, religion really is delusional.

6 - When I was a Christian myself, I witnessed to Wiccans and even Satanists without even trying. If you really are curious as to the best way to spread your beliefs? You start by simply 'effing listening. I cannot stress this. I listened to my Satanist friend before I spilled anything on him. In fact, he is the one who brought up my belief in Christ before I did. In the end, he ended up rejecting Satanism all on his own, simply by influence of me; not by me shoving Psalms down his throat everyday.

7 - The first three faiths shouldn't exist, according to scriptures that predated them. Only Islam has an excuse because the rise of Islam was foretold in the form of one of Abraham's Sons. Wiccan however is an entirely different court. Wiccan in it's oldest form is a Druidic faith that dates back to the early Celts and Gauls. It's only considered a cult now due to it's abrasive nature to the Western Christian doctrines. Remember, the word "Pagan" simply means "non-christian".

8 - Typical response from the average creationist. Unfortunately for them, there is more than archealogy and research to prove evolution. The common rebuttal from these loons is "show me evolution working right now!" and, well... you can. Viruses, domestic animals, certain insects, birds and mammals adapting to urban human environments. Hell, the Banana didn't even exist 100 years ago. Yes, some of the very fruit that some of the idiots EAT didnt even EXIST when their God created the Earth, according to them, 6,000+ years ago. Evolution wins. You are what you eat.

Thanks for letting me spill that out.

All respect to the OP btw, no matter what you believe. Those are my thoughts on this, open floor.

-=Ein=-

[T.J.]

I should probably put a time stamp on this, these were all things I heard back in 2005/2006, but it wouldn't surprise if they did still consider Harry Potter a threat. One guy got mad at me one time for dressing up as Harry Potter for Halloween.

To their credit they actually did encourage us to go out and research these other religions, and even Evolution, ourselves before we even thought about discussing these things.

[Drich]

Just thought I would share some quotes from Christians I have interacted with that still to this day stands out in my mind. Even theists that I have shared these with have done double takes at them so I'm really interested to see what you guys think about these. Good people go to hell, saved people go to heaven.
I was told this by the pastor of the baptist church I went to. It's interesting to me because usually they'll justify it by saying the people have done bad things, but he is actually bold enough to use the word good. But wait, there's more:

Saved people goto heaven, and there are no truly 'good people.' That term according to God is subjective, and only describes the best amongst the worst. Kinda like the term a good or honorable Nazi. Even if a Nazi is good or honorable compared to his comrades he in the end is still a nazi.

"Satan doesn't torture people in hell, God does."
I wish I was joking. This is usually where they blame Satan. Not this time. The idea that God tortures people for eternity for not believing in him isn't too much of a stretch if you researched the old testament. He isn't exactly shy about getting his hands dirty. But the idea that there are people who actually accepts it is kind of terrifying...

1/2 right. Satan does not torture people in Hell as he has been sent there to be punished for all eternity. It is hard to torment when one is being tormented.
As far as that goes Hell is the absents of God. The torment comes for. Our nature of being a member of creation, and suddenly being seperated form it for all of eternity. Hell in of itself is torment, there is no need for one to actively torment you.

People will believe anything to avoid the truth.
This speaks for itself.

indeed.

Global Warming doesn't exist because there's no proof that it does.

The fact that we are not still in an ice age says the planet has been warming. The carbon crap is just revenue generating properganda. The planet yearly average temp is based on solar output and our proximity to the sun as out orbit is elipitical and not a true round orbit.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara...l-warming/

http://news.discovery.com/earth/global-w...-real1.htm

These two link show a history of global climate change that has the same co2 responsible for both results. Now the world is warming and it is because on co2 in the 60 70s and early 80s we were all going to be in an ice age by 2010 because of co2 emissions. Now we are warming because of it.

I am a refrigeration Engeneer, I design systems to perform in certain temp ranges under a given heat load. In order for on to caculate a heat load one must have a known constant heat source, this heat source must always be the same In Order to establish a k factor. A K factor here is a measure of a substances thermal conductivity. With a k factor we can determine an r value or a resistance to heat which is what we are basically saying global warming or cooling is occouring via co2.

The co2 is in essence a insulation that (depending on which theory you currently subscribe to) resists heat causing the temp to fall or insulates us like a blanket keeping heat in. The problem with assigning an "r-value" to the increase of co2 in our atmosphere... We do not have a fact based k factor to compare it to, I say that because we do not a heat coeffectient to compare it to. (We can not know that the solar output of the sun was for the co2 sampling we may have for a given year.)

While ice core samples can give us an understanding of what the co2 levels were 1000 years ago, we do not know the k-factor or solar output of the sun 1000 years ago. With out this critical data (the heat load placed on the planet by solar output) all any douche bag is doing when he say it is warmer or cooler because of co2 is just guessing.

Why would people/governments do this? To sell you on a whole new world of taxes. To force us from dependency of foreign energy sources (not a bad thing, just a terrible way to do it.)
Which is exactly what almost happened in 2006. But in that winter it was colder than it had been for a 100 years, subsequently that is why the PC term is now global climate change rather than global warming. So now no matter what happens you need to buy a hybrid and 'carbon credits.'

Harry Potter is bad, he breaks the rules and gets his friends in trouble and magic is bad. Also, wizards are fighting other wizards, a house divided against itself cannot stand.
Paraphrasing since I can't remember the exact quote, but still. Huh? 1.) It's a work of fiction. 2.) Was there really a need to throw the bible quote in there?

the only thing worse than a Harry potter book is a Harry potter movie. Not because of the witch craft but because of general bad writting and poor imagination suckiness. The church just needs to leave that alone and let that one die on the vine. It's a generational thing kill Roy, buck Rogers, or dick Tracy. Sure there are those who still follow some of those old icons, but they are the exception and not the rule. In a generation or two it's going to be Harry who?

Lesson: how to witness to cults
Okay, this sounds interesting. What do you got?

the same way you do anyone else. Listen to what they have to say answer any questions that you can, and point them in the right direction if/when the time comes.

Cults: Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Wiccans
one man's cult is another man's religion.

so?

People who believe in evolution are only throwing mud at the wall in the hopes that it sticks.
If that's them winging it I DO NOT want to see them when they're using their brains.

why does it have to be one or the other? Why couldn't both have happened?
http://atheistforums.org/thread-14190.html

[Silver]

I hear tons of things I disagree with.
I'd hardly call that "learning".

Because you refuse to learn.

[DLJ]

Lesson: how to witness to cults

I think this one might have been a typo.

hock:

[T.J.]

why does it have to be one or the other? Why couldn't both have happened?

It's hard to accept both when they contradict each other. Unless you just mean putting a god at the front of it all, which I'll admit is possible. But at the same time it's just as possible that the universe has always been. This is one of many reasons I find myself at a crossroads.

Just saw the link. I'll have to give that a read later.

[Mystical]

Why don't I believe in bigfoot? Because there's no evidence for him. Why don't I believe in god? Same epically monumental problem. That said, there could be a god who started everything we see. I'm still looking for that god, however...

As far as that goes Hell is the absents of God. The torment comes for. Our nature of being a member of creation, and suddenly being seperated form it for all of eternity. Hell in of itself is torment, there is no need for one to actively torment you.

Hell is not just absence from god.

---

Revelations 14 (NEW TESTAMENT)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Revelations 21
8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelations 19
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”

Revelations 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beastu and the false prophetv had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

(Rev. 19:19-21)
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Matthew 10:33
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

John 3:14-17
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

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the only thing worse than a Harry potter book is a Harry potter movie. Not because of the witch craft but because of general bad writting and poor imagination suckiness.

Um, you read the books then?


Also Drich, how about you not be lazy, and point out to poor ToriJ here where you think you have a point in the 22 page thread you just linked her/him to? Jesus.