Women's Rights and Religion

[Captain Colostomy]

FiniteImmortal...you're full of shit.

[FiniteImmortal]

FiniteImmortal...you're full of shit.

Ironic, coming from a Colon, and a Captain no less.

Rather than a one line zinger, do you have a counter-point or do Captains not waste their time with riff-raff?

I'd love for anyone to explain to me how "Rights" are a rational discussion in a purely material universe. If this is purely material, can we please stop bull-shitting ourselves and stop cherry picking only the things of convenience from a transcendent worldview?

[Captain Colostomy]

FiniteImmortal...you're full of shit.

Ironic, coming from a Colon, and a Captain no less.

Rather than a one line zinger, do you have a counter-point or do Captains not waste their time with riff-raff?

I'd love for anyone to explain to me how "Rights" are a rational discussion in a purely material universe. If this is purely material, can we please stop bull-shitting ourselves and stop cherry picking only the things of convenience from a transcendent worldview?

Your diatribe underestimates a woman's value and suggests only christianity attempts to elevate women to equal status in a material world.

So...full of shit.

[Bipolar Bob]

I know of NO other worldview in existence, other than Christianity, that lends the Majesty and Mystique to Womenhood that she deserves.

Before I address your other points, I would like you to please clarify this statement.

[FiniteImmortal]

Ironic, coming from a Colon, and a Captain no less.

Rather than a one line zinger, do you have a counter-point or do Captains not waste their time with riff-raff?

I'd love for anyone to explain to me how "Rights" are a rational discussion in a purely material universe. If this is purely material, can we please stop bull-shitting ourselves and stop cherry picking only the things of convenience from a transcendent worldview?

Your diatribe underestimates a woman's value and suggests only christianity attempts to elevate women to equal status in a material world.

So...full of shit.

Interesting take. It seems to me a material world can not elevate women anywhere. In a purely Darwinian worldview, success can only be based on its species' ability to survive and procreate. Anything beyond that is brought about by society, it HAS to, it wont come from rocks or empty space. This is where the problem lies. When "rights" are voted in or out either by the people or by a centralized government, personal happiness and individual liberty is oppressed. We saw what happened in Germany, at that time the most educated society in the world.

A "right" exists absolutely, forever. It cannot be taken away or added, only violated. It means it existed before we got here, and will endure after we leave, period. Women have essential worth, all humanity does. Christianity is claiming that it should not be violated, Humanism claims it is up to us to decide what is sacred, that we may pick and choose based on the situation.

Now, there may be other worldviews that attempt to protect women's god-given rights, but if they are operating from a purely material framework, they are left to deciding what are "rights" are based on what seems correct, and is purely PRAGMATIC. This "what seems correct" can vary a HUGE degree, as we see in the modern world of corruption.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is sacred. The de-sacrilization of modern society is de-elevating Womenhood and all of humanity to being a bi-product of primordial slime, of time plus matter plus chance. Where is essential worth and hence, unalienable rights in that? How can you make a moral pronouncement that Women's rights ought not be violated, in a non-mortal framework? You must borrow from a transcendent worldview in order to debunk it.

What seems closer to reality? Women are the pinnacle of beauty and an amazing creation; made in the express image of an infinite God, or... What? What worldview could ever put Womenhood on a higher pedestal that that?

Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just thoughtfully interact.

[thesummerqueen]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

When society centered entirely around "the sacred" women were the most shit upon. We see that now in the Middle East. Try again, dude. The Abrahamic religions especially, but pretty much all other religions in general, don't give a shit about vaunting femininity, being as men don't like the fact that we can cause them to think with an embarrassingly obvious portion of their anatomy.

[Captain Colostomy]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

When society centered entirely around "the sacred" women were the most shit upon. We see that now in the Middle East. Try again, dude. The Abrahamic religions especially, but pretty much all other religions in general, don't give a shit about vaunting femininity, being as men don't like the fact that we can cause them to think with an embarrassingly obvious portion of their anatomy.

If it's obvious, it's not embarrassing.

[FiniteImmortal]

I know of NO other worldview in existence, other than Christianity, that lends the Majesty and Mystique to Womenhood that she deserves.

Before I address your other points, I would like you to please clarify this statement.

Hundreds of years before "Women are from Mars, Men are from Venous" was written, God payed the biggest compliment to Womenhood when he told men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. That is an unconditional love that transcends all time and space. When Jesus first appeared after his Resurrection, he chose to reveal himself to a woman, he called her by name "Mary". At that time in that oppressive culture a woman's testimony wasn't even valid in court. When he spoke to the woman at the well, he cut through all her struggles and life of brokenness and offered her living water in which when she would drink would never thirst again. When she caught a glimpse of who he was, she ran as fast as her feet could carry her to tell everyone about the man who told her about herself, as she felt like she was on the brink of the most monumental discovery of her life. Feminine imagery is used through out in reference to beauty, majesty, and something that needs be protected and nourished. The bible describes them as the weaker vessel, which conforms to reality as we know it, politically correct or not. It is a description of reality, not a prescription for women to be weak. There are some really tough women and some fairly fragile men out there, but as a whole we are bigger, tougher, and usually dumber : ) Womenhood should be esteemed by men above all other earthly things. It is when we deviate from the instructions of "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loves the church", that we have a 6 in 10 divorce rate. We have the capacity and admonition to love unconditionally because god first loved us unconditionally.
I don't see where Burqas need to come into play, or any other oppressive construct of douchey men. Imagine if every couple that fell in love, loved each other unconditionally for life, how would the world look then? It is men's pride that is his undoing and oppressive holier than thou groups, not biblical truths and principles.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

You presume that a man's love and Christ's love is somehow a sign of women's status. That somehow, if these did not happen, women would be undeserving of rights, or that people would think we are undeserving of rights. Isn't it funny that men's rights are always unspoken and understood, but women's rights are often fought about, it's like it's a special thing that someone else needs to give to us, not something that we have. Well news flash, that's not "rights" you're talking about, you're talking about privilege. The idea of rights did not come from the abrahamic religions, they do not have that concept, if I'm not mistaken it was Hobbes and Benthem that first talked about rights (fairly distorted, didn't give any to women or poor people), but generally it's the modern concept that most people subscribe to these days, and if you step on it, I'm not religious but you'll definitely hear me protesting.

[FiniteImmortal]

You presume that a man's love and Christ's love is somehow a sign of women's status. That somehow, if these did not happen, women would be undeserving of rights, or that people would think we are undeserving of rights. Isn't it funny that men's rights are always unspoken and understood, but women's rights are often fought about, it's like it's a special thing that someone else needs to give to us, not something that we have. Well news flash, that's not "rights" you're talking about, you're talking about privilege. The idea of rights did not come from the abrahamic religions, they do not have that concept, if I'm not mistaken it was Hobbes and Benthem that first talked about rights (fairly distorted, didn't give any to women or poor people), but generally it's the modern concept that most people subscribe to these days, and if you step on it, I'm not religious but you'll definitely hear me protesting.

I'm not claiming that rights come from Abrahamic religions, or Hobbes and Benthem, or any other construct whatsoever. Rights, "unalienable", can only come from a higher power, "alienable" or man-voted rights come from our own rear ends and can be changed with what ever is popular in culture. All Human life, regardless of social status, color, creed, gender, etc, has essential worth and infinite value in God's eyes. You can tell how valuable something is by how much was paid for it. In our case, the Christian narrative states God gave his only begotten son, an infinite sacrifice so that we may be saved from ourselves. It's us know-it-alls that attempt to regulate, restrict, monopolize and re-distribute rights as we see fit.

The concept of infinite love has to be a fairy tale and indulgent silliness, if God's infinite love doesn't exist in real reality.

When I hold my new-born baby, I instinctively know she is precious beyond measure and that I have a natural unalienable right to nourish and protect and love her forever. That innate acknowledgement comes only to me from on high, not because I heard or read it somewhere. It is not externally or culturally spurred on, it is hardwired into our humanity.