The question that makes fundies hostile

[Godscreated]

Esq, that doesn't necessarily mean that Allah was always equated with Yahweh. Allah could well have a pre-existing deity that was conflated with Yahweh in order to maintain cultural beliefs, practices and identity whilst adopting a new religion. After all, assimilation has long been one of christianity's greatest tools and I doubt they are the only faith to have used it.

(cue jokes about religious tools)

Granted, but I just thought GC would more willingly sit up and listen to something from his own holy screed. Fact is, there's a lot of crossover between the two religions in their holy books, and the general teachings of Islam accept that Allah either is the god of Abraham, or the two share a common source in the actual creative deity. To characterize Allah as some other god is simply incorrect, both in present and based upon the original writings of Islam's prophet.

Ishmael was living in the area where the moon god was worshiped and this god was eventually called Allah. Allah is in no way Yahweh, I'm going to give you one of your little quips, ask the Jews I bet they will tell you that Allah is a false god, like you said the religion of Yahweh was theirs originally. The Quran was written 200 years after Moses, they copied what they wanted to from the OT to suit their new god.

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GC, were you replying to me about the Yahwey thing or the Muslim thing?

I referred to both, so I'm not sure what you mean.

GC

[Esquilax]

Ishmael was living in the area where the moon god was worshiped and this god was eventually called Allah. Allah is in no way Yahweh, I'm going to give you one of your little quips, ask the Jews I bet they will tell you that Allah is a false god, like you said the religion of Yahweh was theirs originally. The Quran was written 200 years after Moses, they copied what they wanted to from the OT to suit their new god.

Aside from the complete lack of references you've provided, just "ask the jews?" Of course they'd say Allah is a false god, just like you'd say the god of Judaism is a false god, because you've got an interpretation of your own.

[Godscreated]

Ishmael was living in the area where the moon god was worshiped and this god was eventually called Allah. Allah is in no way Yahweh, I'm going to give you one of your little quips, ask the Jews I bet they will tell you that Allah is a false god, like you said the religion of Yahweh was theirs originally. The Quran was written 200 years after Moses, they copied what they wanted to from the OT to suit their new god.

Aside from the complete lack of references you've provided, just "ask the jews?" Of course they'd say Allah is a false god, just like you'd say the god of Judaism is a false god, because you've got an interpretation of your own.

The God of Judaism and Christianity are the One and same, period.

[Whateverist]

...to whom we are grateful. (Grammar)

Every forum needs a pompous ass with good grammar.

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Esq, that doesn't necessarily mean that Allah was always equated with Yahweh. Allah could well have a pre-existing deity that was conflated with Yahweh in order to maintain cultural beliefs, practices and identity whilst adopting a new religion. After all, assimilation has long been one of christianity's greatest tools and I doubt they are the only faith to have used it.

(cue jokes about religious tools)

Granted, but I just thought GC would more willingly sit up and listen ..

And that is where you went wrong.

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I didn't know this. Could you elaborate more on Allah's origins?

You didn't know it because it's dead wrong. Allah is just another name for the same Abrahamic god that Christians worship; it's a different interpretation, but it's the same god. GC is just fabricating bullshit, here. Surprise, surprise.

Are you sure, Esqy? I always thought the gods of all religions had antecedents from earlier cultures. Isn't Christ supposed to be a doppelganger for Osiris and a corn god. The virgin birth isn't a new story either. An individual saving the rest of the population by his/her sacrifice has been going on since the first maiden was tossed in the volcano. (Apparently many of them too made their sacrifice willingly in order to better please the resident gods.)

[Esquilax]

Are you sure, Esqy? I always thought the gods of all religions had antecedents from earlier cultures. Isn't Christ supposed to be a doppelganger for Osiris and a corn god. The virgin birth isn't a new story either. An individual saving the rest of the population by his/her sacrifice has been going on since the first maiden was tossed in the volcano. (Apparently many of them too made their sacrifice willingly in order to better please the resident gods.)

Oh, of course, all gods have relatives further down the family tree, but that's you and I living in the real world where all of these things are made up. But GC's initial claim was that Allah was some other moon god whose purpose was to overshadow and replace Yahweh, a claim that's simply invalidated by not only the teachings of mainstream Islam, where they're both claimed to be the same being, but also the overlap between the bible and the quran in terms of the creation story.

[Crossless2.0]

Ishmael was living in the area where the moon god was worshiped and this god was eventually called Allah. Allah is in no way Yahweh, I'm going to give you one of your little quips, ask the Jews I bet they will tell you that Allah is a false god, like you said the religion of Yahweh was theirs originally. The Quran was written 200 years after Moses, they copied what they wanted to from the OT to suit their new god.

You may be right about the Jews, but then again they would also say that Jesus Christ is a false god.

And the Quran was written 200 years after Moses? Where the fuck are you getting that from? Are you suggesting that Moses somehow came after Jesus? Or are you just making shit up as you go?

Never mind. That was a rhetorical question.

[Mystical]

Yahweh is the God of the Jews and Christians, Allah is originally a moon god that the Muslims try place in the roll of God. This is actually the same thing that Satan was trying to do before the fall of man. Allah is a false god that the Muslims put in place of Yahweh because they could not accept the truth of Yahweh. The greatest difference in Yahweh and Allah is that the founder of the Muslim religion was a man that's now dead and in the grave, There is no founder of Judaism and Christianity, Yahweh the creator is the religion, the creator of all things who has always been and will always be, to found a thing means there was a beginning.

GC

I find this interesting because when I was a Christian, the baptists and the Calvary chapels I attended all said YHWH was a false name for god and was not used.
Here's the best site I can find that explains what I was told about it.

http://thejewishjesus.blogspot.com/2011/...ahweh.html

One of the facts that cannot be refuted, is that YHWH Yahweh is a god who has a consort, a wife. You can Google this and there is tons of information. Just Google Yahweh consort Asherah. It now appears when the Jews re-wrote the Bible in Babylon, they associated this Asherah to Ashtoreth and this helps confuse the ancient consort of YHWH having allegedly come from Syria and not Egypt. The spelling was changed to hide that Asherah was the wife of YHWH Yahweh. Now they can make Asherah the wife of Baal and attempt to make it appear their YHWH Yahweh is not Baal and had no wife. Very slick and tricky. Once we make the discovery that Asherah is the original moon goddess wife of moon god YHWH Yahweh, it is easy then to see that YHWH was the Baal mentioned throughout the Old Testament. Baal he is lord, he is YHWH, he is Jehovah. When you look up halleluyah they will tell you it means praise Jehovah or praise Yah. What they do not tell you is that Jehovah is Baal and Yah is Baal. YHWH Jehovah is the true Yah moon god and his Asherah wife is also now part of the moon god pantheon. I am demanding all you Apostolic people to stop saying "halleluyah" right now. I prophesy that if you do not after you have been shown the truth, you will not be saved. And you cannot worship the name of Jesus above all names when you hold on to pagan names and praises of idolatry.

God is one. The God of Israel has no wife. He has no consort. There is no goddess. He was not the moon god. He was not Osiris YHWH. He had no temple until Solomon built one for him (2 Sam 7:6). The God of Israel dwelt in a tent tabernacle. No one built a temple of hewn stones for the true God before Solomon. All temples between Mount Horeb and Mount Moriah are pagan houses of false gods in high places and under green trees (2Kings 17:10). This includes alleged altars or temples on Mount Nebo and at Arad. When YHWH is found in these pagan Canaanite temples it is proof YHWH is an idol god. YHWH was a Canaanite god developed from Egyptian gods. If this YHWH god is the one Israel presently claims is their God, then they have no God. And they will not have a God until they stop this centuries old idolatry. They worship they know not what. They worship the same "Jabe" (Yahve) god as the Samaritans.

Here is where the can of YHWH worms comes open.

Take a look at 2Kings 23:7--"And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

It is here we see that grove is "Asherah" (Strong's #842). Now where was this Asherah for which they were making beautiful hangings? An image of this idol god was in the Temple. But this Temple is not the house or Temple of the true God at this time. It is called the "house of YHWH." And why not, because if his Asherah goddess is a fixture in this Temple now, then her husband god is YHWH and that is why it is called the house of YHWH which is translated "LORD, Jehovah, and Yahweh." But because we associate LORD to mean the true God of Israel, we are blind-sided to believe the LORD here is not Yahweh YHWH the Baal husband of Asherah.


It is here that this YHWH Yahweh or shortened to Yah becomes the halleluyah god. They used images of YHWH to invoke halleluyah from the worshippers. What do they mean by saying halleluyah? They mean "praise the lord" which translates into praise Baal. They set up their halleuyah images with hands upward toward the moon and hands downward from the moon to give them blessings. They made images of the moon god and incorporated images of his Asherah into these poles and pillars.

The Jews pervert the use of Lord or Adonai to make LORD YHWH or Yahweh this Adonai Lord. This is an abomination of the highest degree. To make matters worse, the Jews and those who re-wrote the Bible at Babylon and in Israel and Egypt, used LORD YHWH and Lord Adonai interchangeable so it would make it impossible for the casual eye or reader to distinguish between the true God and the profane idol YHWH.

And when the Jews put YHWH into their Bibles and make this the true Adonai Lord, they are reprobate idolaters. God is Adonai and this Adonai is why he is Lord. This God Adonai is not Lord because he is YHWH LORD.

[Godscreated]

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Ishmael was living in the area where the moon god was worshiped and this god was eventually called Allah. Allah is in no way Yahweh, I'm going to give you one of your little quips, ask the Jews I bet they will tell you that Allah is a false god, like you said the religion of Yahweh was theirs originally. The Quran was written 200 years after Moses, they copied what they wanted to from the OT to suit their new god.

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You may be right about the Jews, but then again they would also say that Jesus Christ is a false god.

And the Quran was written 200 years after Moses? Where the fuck are you getting that from? Are you suggesting that Moses somehow came after Jesus? Or are you just making shit up as you go?

Never mind. That was a rhetorical question.

Sorry that was suppose to be 2000 years.

[Godscreated]

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Yahweh is the God of the Jews and Christians, Allah is originally a moon god that the Muslims try place in the roll of God. This is actually the same thing that Satan was trying to do before the fall of man. Allah is a false god that the Muslims put in place of Yahweh because they could not accept the truth of Yahweh. The greatest difference in Yahweh and Allah is that the founder of the Muslim religion was a man that's now dead and in the grave, There is no founder of Judaism and Christianity, Yahweh the creator is the religion, the creator of all things who has always been and will always be, to found a thing means there was a beginning.

---

GC

I find this interesting because when I was a Christian, the baptists and the Calvary chapels I attended all said YHWH was a false name for god and was not used.
Here's the best site I can find that explains what I was told about it.

http://thejewishjesus.blogspot.com/2011/...ahweh.html

One of the facts that cannot be refuted, is that YHWH Yahweh is a god who has a consort, a wife. You can Google this and there is tons of information. Just Google Yahweh consort Asherah. It now appears when the Jews re-wrote the Bible in Babylon, they associated this Asherah to Ashtoreth and this helps confuse the ancient consort of YHWH having allegedly come from Syria and not Egypt. The spelling was changed to hide that Asherah was the wife of YHWH Yahweh. Now they can make Asherah the wife of Baal and attempt to make it appear their YHWH Yahweh is not Baal and had no wife. Very slick and tricky. Once we make the discovery that Asherah is the original moon goddess wife of moon god YHWH Yahweh, it is easy then to see that YHWH was the Baal mentioned throughout the Old Testament. Baal he is lord, he is YHWH, he is Jehovah. When you look up halleluyah they will tell you it means praise Jehovah or praise Yah. What they do not tell you is that Jehovah is Baal and Yah is Baal. YHWH Jehovah is the true Yah moon god and his Asherah wife is also now part of the moon god pantheon. I am demanding all you Apostolic people to stop saying "halleluyah" right now. I prophesy that if you do not after you have been shown the truth, you will not be saved. And you cannot worship the name of Jesus above all names when you hold on to pagan names and praises of idolatry.

God is one. The God of Israel has no wife. He has no consort. There is no goddess. He was not the moon god. He was not Osiris YHWH. He had no temple until Solomon built one for him (2 Sam 7:6). The God of Israel dwelt in a tent tabernacle. No one built a temple of hewn stones for the true God before Solomon. All temples between Mount Horeb and Mount Moriah are pagan houses of false gods in high places and under green trees (2Kings 17:10). This includes alleged altars or temples on Mount Nebo and at Arad. When YHWH is found in these pagan Canaanite temples it is proof YHWH is an idol god. YHWH was a Canaanite god developed from Egyptian gods. If this YHWH god is the one Israel presently claims is their God, then they have no God. And they will not have a God until they stop this centuries old idolatry. They worship they know not what. They worship the same "Jabe" (Yahve) god as the Samaritans.

Here is where the can of YHWH worms comes open.

Take a look at 2Kings 23:7--"And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

It is here we see that grove is "Asherah" (Strong's #842). Now where was this Asherah for which they were making beautiful hangings? An image of this idol god was in the Temple. But this Temple is not the house or Temple of the true God at this time. It is called the "house of YHWH." And why not, because if his Asherah goddess is a fixture in this Temple now, then her husband god is YHWH and that is why it is called the house of YHWH which is translated "LORD, Jehovah, and Yahweh." But because we associate LORD to mean the true God of Israel, we are blind-sided to believe the LORD here is not Yahweh YHWH the Baal husband of Asherah.


It is here that this YHWH Yahweh or shortened to Yah becomes the halleluyah god. They used images of YHWH to invoke halleluyah from the worshippers. What do they mean by saying halleluyah? They mean "praise the lord" which translates into praise Baal. They set up their halleuyah images with hands upward toward the moon and hands downward from the moon to give them blessings. They made images of the moon god and incorporated images of his Asherah into these poles and pillars.

The Jews pervert the use of Lord or Adonai to make LORD YHWH or Yahweh this Adonai Lord. This is an abomination of the highest degree. To make matters worse, the Jews and those who re-wrote the Bible at Babylon and in Israel and Egypt, used LORD YHWH and Lord Adonai interchangeable so it would make it impossible for the casual eye or reader to distinguish between the true God and the profane idol YHWH.

And when the Jews put YHWH into their Bibles and make this the true Adonai Lord, they are reprobate idolaters. God is Adonai and this Adonai is why he is Lord. This God Adonai is not Lord because he is YHWH LORD.

I do not know how this person or persons could have screwed up scripture so badly. In the scriptures Asherah is always recognized as a false goddess and never ever associated with God Yahweh or Adonai. The verse given hear is speaking of the destruction of the Baal and Asherah idols and the male prostitutes and the females working in the temple. Read 2nd Kings 23 and see for yourself. As far as I can tell this is a group that wants to twist scripture to fit their dislike for the Jewish people.
The OT references to Lord are 'adown' meaning to rule, sovereign, master. Adonay used as a proper name of God only. Yahh the sacred name. Most commonly Yehovah, self existence or eternal One.
elohiym and other 'els' are used for God, Yehovih is also used for God.
Many names are used for God in the OT, but nowhere does the scriptures even elude to God having a wife of any kind. All that crap came from the false worship of God when the Jewish people also worshiped Baal and Asherah.
This is the very reason God wanted the Israelites to wipe out all the people of the land they were to occupy, He did not want them to get mixed up in theses false gods and the worship of them. If they had obeyed Him none of this would have ever happened through the Israelites. Things get out of whack when God is not listened to.

GC

[Chas]

Ishmael was living in the area where the moon god was worshiped and this god was eventually called Allah. Allah is in no way Yahweh, I'm going to give you one of your little quips, ask the Jews I bet they will tell you that Allah is a false god, like you said the religion of Yahweh was theirs originally. The Quran was written 200 years after Moses, they copied what they wanted to from the OT to suit their new god.

GC

"False god" is redundant.

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Aside from the complete lack of references you've provided, just "ask the jews?" Of course they'd say Allah is a false god, just like you'd say the god of Judaism is a false god, because you've got an interpretation of your own.

The God of Judaism and Christianity are the One and same, period.

Well, except for the god of Christianity having a son, and the god of Judaism not. Are you overlooking that little detail?