"The bible test" Answered.

[Minimalist]

I've never read Craig but he is popular in Christan circles.

That's because his arguments are facile.

[Ksa]

Forbids who from lying? Can you provide book Chapter and verse that say He/God is not able to lie?

You know, when I saw this I immediately thought of Hebrews 6:18 ("it is impossible for God to lie") but the context implies, not that god cannot ever lie, but that when he swears an oath he can be trusted to keep it.

Hebrews 6:16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure.

I read the "two unchanging natures" to refer to his purpose and his oath. Although why a being with an unchanging purpose would need to swear an oath is beyond me. But there does not seem to be any scripture that says that god cannot lie, and this scripture would imply that he is quite able to, barring those times when he swears an oath or if a lie would run contrary to his purpose. I admit I find it pretty fascinating.

Like he lied in Matthew 16:4 which says:

"A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away."

And Jesus never fulfills the sign of Jonah because Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish and the Christians say Jesus was DEAD in the tomb. He was DEAD. So he lied!

[xpastor]

I've never read Craig but he is popular in Christan circles.

That's because his arguments are facile.

But surely not as dopey as Drich?

[Drich]

[Ksa]

^ "That is why the lower case 'g' is used in the word gods."

Lies. It's a bad translation from the Greek version in which Thios is the word for God. If you translate properly, all "God" references in the Bible should have a CAPITAL G. The minuscule g is a fabrication.

Your knowledge is very weak. Do you know greek?

[Drich]

It is also mentioned in the book of Hebrews, in chapter 7 and verse 3 which says about Melchizedek:

"Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever."

Jesus had a mother, no father and he had an apparent end, because we do not agree on that either, but Melchizedek, he had NO FATHER and NO MOTHER, No beginning of days, NO end of life.

Who is that? That's God! Without father and mother is God! Without beginning of days is God! Melchizedek! He's the one who deserves true worship if anything...not a child born in a stable WHAT MAKES HIM GOD!

I want you to say you know, this child who made his mother impure for 40 days, he's God! He's Jehovah! He's Allah! He's God!

In fact, Jesus never claimed divinity. Do you know that in India alone, over 10,000 people have claimed divinity? Why do you have to worship that one man who never claimed such a thing? Why are you so unreasonable?

Bible says that Jesus, when he was 8 days old he was circumcised. God? Getting circumcised?

Actually Jesus did claim divinity in john 10 when He said I and my Father are one.

[Ksa]

It is also mentioned in the book of Hebrews, in chapter 7 and verse 3 which says about Melchizedek:

"Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever."

Jesus had a mother, no father and he had an apparent end, because we do not agree on that either, but Melchizedek, he had NO FATHER and NO MOTHER, No beginning of days, NO end of life.

Who is that? That's God! Without father and mother is God! Without beginning of days is God! Melchizedek! He's the one who deserves true worship if anything...not a child born in a stable WHAT MAKES HIM GOD!

I want you to say you know, this child who made his mother impure for 40 days, he's God! He's Jehovah! He's Allah! He's God!

In fact, Jesus never claimed divinity. Do you know that in India alone, over 10,000 people have claimed divinity? Why do you have to worship that one man who never claimed such a thing? Why are you so unreasonable?

Bible says that Jesus, when he was 8 days old he was circumcised. God? Getting circumcised?

Actually Jesus did claim divinity in john 10 when He said I and my Father are one.

That meant they are one in purpose, like I have explained. Christians took it literally and again misunderstood everything. The Bible is a Jewish book...you attempt to understand a Jewish book with your 2013 English language.

[Drich]

Drich, you are very fond of "rolling on the floor laughing out loud."

I reserve that for foolish or blantly hypocritcal comments. like the one you made where you make an assertion about something in which you have no proof and then proclaim to believe to be truth. all the while claim you can not believe in God because you have no 'proof.'

Yet my logic, my ablity to reason is in question???


Uh, no. Maybe tell us some more about your current 'faith' if you want to see example of fail logic and reason.

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Actually Jesus did claim divinity in john 10 when He said I and my Father are one.

That meant they are one in purpose, like I have explained. Christians took it literally and again misunderstood everything. The Bible is a Jewish book...you attempt to understand a Jewish book with your 2013 English language.

Sorry no. Even if Christians had a problem with understanding what Jesus Meant the Jews did not. Christ clearly asks them in Chapter 10 why do you seek to kill me, they said because you claim to be God.

The arguement is over sport, you lost. maybe you can bait another question and have better luck with that one If you decide to I ask that you start your own thread rather than hijack mine, oh and welcome to AF

[Ksa]

Sorry no. Even if Christians had a problem with understanding what Jesus Meant the Jews did not. Christ clearly asks them in Chapter 10 why do you seek to kill me, they said because you claim to be God.

The arguement is over sport, you lost. maybe you can bait another question and have better luck with that one If you decide to I ask that you start your own thread rather than hijack mine, oh and welcome to AF

The Jews had a problem with everything about Jesus! Have you read your Bible? Jesus calling them a wicked and adulterous generation...fools...SNAKES! Would you like someone addressing you like that? And the Jews were not a people to forget in a hurry, so they surround him and try to make up pretty much any bs story about him so they can give him a good bashing!

Do you follow the Jews or do you follow Jesus Christ? The Jews could have said he's Satan, would you have believed them? The Jews HATED Jesus. Jesus never claimed divinity so don't come say what the Jews said. Convert to Judaism if you care about that too much.

In the verse after that Jesus answers them "YEE ARE GODS", saying why are you trying to find fault with me when others are called Gods. Would God have said that? Would God have said I am God but so is everyone else? Unless he said: He is not God!

Every time the Jews called Jesus God, Jesus called them names and portrayed them as a lost generation. You think that by following the Jews' example and calling Jesus God, Jesus will give you a tap on the back and say good job? The Jews called him God in the Bible and Jesus told them away from me you evil doers! I DON'T KNOW YOU!

Jesus doesn't know you.

Matthew 7:22:

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?"

Matthew 7:23:

"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

If you address Jesus as God, He doesn't know you! What more do you require as proof that he never claimed divinity?

Do you want to end up before the Kingdom of Heaven and have Jesus tell you he never knew you, depart from me you evildoer!?!? You want that to happen to you?

[ThomM]

Actually Jesus did claim divinity in john 10 when He said I and my Father are one.
[/quote]

Actually - that is not true - in the least - and is a direct problem of a translated text - failing to account for idioms of the original language.

In the terms of the languages of the supposed time of the christ - and many also today - when Caesar said that he was ONE with the Roman senate - it meant that he agreed with them. It is a common idiom for agreement - used in many languages to this day. Certainly Caesar did not mean that he and the roman senate were the same person!!!!! You can find the use of this idiom in lots of texts from all over the earth.

You rarely find your claim in countries that still use the idiom - and YOU can verify the Idiom in the many on line idiom dictionaries.

In fact - the mythology of the christ always refers to the father as another - and the father refers to the son as another as well. And the claim that they were the same person begs the question - why did the christ - on the cross - refer to his father - "Why have YOU forsaken me? - when if they were the same person - he should have said - why have I forsaken myself!!!!