Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist

[Blake the Heretic]

I have no beef with (but also no interest in) your youtube hero. But if you knew Vinnie better, you wouldn't defend him. When he questions Zazzy's motives, it's just him getting in touch with his inner asshole. Zazzy on the other hand is someone whose perspective and ability to communicate I've come to respect. You I don't know at all.

I see. Well I can promise you I mean no disrespect. I only had a small portion of the conversation to work with. From my perspective it looked like this Zazzy person was getting beef for questioning someone's motives, which I don't agree with the idea that it's wrong to be skeptical of someone's intention.

I really don't know the back story, I just know what I saw.

[là bạn điên]

I generally enjoy the Amazing Atheists broadcasts and I find very little to disagree with.

As regarding feminism I am a Liberal so I agree with Liberal feminism , ie supporting equality, I am completely averse to gender feminism which I find the most authoritarian position bar islamism in the west today. Gender feminists are trying to shut down any free speech and to utterly take over academia. One need only look at A+ just to see how doctrinaire and intolerant these people are.

The most batshit positions they have include:

'The Patriarchy' encourages rape to terrorise women.

Men and women's behavioral differences are only due to conditioning.

Women shouldn't take precautions against rape since it is 'mens responsibility'

All men are rapists

[Esquilax]

Women shouldn't take precautions against rape since it is 'mens responsibility'

Isn't it actually the men's responsibility though? I don't know why you put that in scare quotes, I think that the man that is raping has orders of magnitude more responsibility for the rape than the woman who walked into a dark alley.

[Lemonvariable72]

Women shouldn't take precautions against rape since it is 'mens responsibility'

Isn't it actually the men's responsibility though? I don't know why you put that in scare quotes, I think that the man that is raping has orders of magnitude more responsibility for the rape than the woman who walked into a dark alley.

....did we not just have this debate. I'll sone it up. Yes women can do things to protect themselves and it should not be taboo to talk about it. However if some sick fuck commits rape, yes it is him that should be punished no matter what the woman was doing or not doing.

[là bạn điên]

Women shouldn't take precautions against rape since it is 'mens responsibility'

Isn't it actually the men's responsibility though? I don't know why you put that in scare quotes, I think that the man that is raping has orders of magnitude more responsibility for the rape than the woman who walked into a dark alley.

I use 'scare quotes' because I object to the phrasal noun 'men's responsibility' because there is no collective 'men's responsibility'.

Any crime must contain: Intention, capability and oppurtunity. Clearly potential victims have a great deal of agency in curbing opportunity. As a third party I have almost no influence over Intention, Capability or Opportunity.

Society can limit the opportunity of already established offenders through incarceration ( or more drastic methods) and may be able to limit some intention through sex offender treatment programmes to the already incarcerated (though their efficacy does NOT seem to be well established). I have no seen a single way that intention can be removed society wide .

I therefore believe that the gender Feminist movement have NO effective remedies for rape and actively seek to oppose the best possible action that the potential victim can take (ie reducing opportunity)

---

Isn't it actually the men's responsibility though? I don't know why you put that in scare quotes, I think that the man that is raping has orders of magnitude more responsibility for the rape than the woman who walked into a dark alley.

....did we not just have this debate. I'll sone it up. Yes women can do things to protect themselves and it should not be taboo to talk about it. However if some sick fuck commits rape, yes it is him that should be punished no matter what the woman was doing or not doing.

I don't disagree with any of what you state. Gender Feminists do disagree with what you state. They claim that women needn't do anything because ,supposedly, all men are responsible for rape.

[TaraJo]

I'm forced to agree with him. I've been in more than my fair share of disputes with wacked out feminists and these discussions never go well.

Here's an example, from my personal life. A friend of mine used to like going to nightclubs all the time. Thing was, she had a habit of going alone and not keeping a good eye on her drink. Eventually, a guy put something into her drink and her memory got "fuzzy" for the next 12 or so hours. Yeah, she was pretty darn sure the guy put a roofie in her drink and we're pretty sure she was raped. I sympathized with her, I was supportive and everything like that, but shortly afterwards, when she started going back to the clubs, she still wasn't keeping an eye on her drink. Me, I think it would be a really douche-bag move not to point out that she should watch her drink better so someone doesn't put something in it. Yet, if I were to make a similar comment in a heavy feminist environment, all I hear is shouts of how I'm victim blaming or saying she deserved to be raped or absolving the rapist of responsibility.

Or, to use another metaphore, when I was 9, I was a latch-key kid. Since my brother and I were the last ones to leave the house every morning, locking up was our responsibility. I forgot to lock up one day and, sure enough, we got robbed. I'm sure my dad, when he found out about it, he blamed the robber, but he was pretty damn upset with me. If he punished me for us getting robbed, was that victim blaming? Would that mean my dad was trying to absolve the robber of responsibility?

However, I have heard from other, more reasonable feminists who are able to explain it a bit better, with issues of victims blaming themselves or having issues with self esteem and I'll agree, those are legitimate issues. But it's pretty rare to get those reasonable explanations; usually it's just a few angry, shrill girls, calling us misogynists and rape supporters until they run out of breath. I'm finding that the feminist message isn't always bad, but a lot of the people who carry the feminist banner do a TERRIBLE job at expressing their views in a constructive manner.

[Psykhronic]

Meh, I think I'm going to refrain from any more posts in this thread. My nullgender ass just is not a part of the discussion, and nor is everyone regardless of gender. Just more putting everything on women and then calling most feminists extreme.

[Blake the Heretic]

Isn't it actually the men's responsibility though? I don't know why you put that in scare quotes, I think that the man that is raping has orders of magnitude more responsibility for the rape than the woman who walked into a dark alley.

....did we not just have this debate. I'll sone it up. Yes women can do things to protect themselves and it should not be taboo to talk about it. However if some sick fuck commits rape, yes it is him that should be punished no matter what the woman was doing or not doing.

I agree. If a woman gets raped it is the fault of the rapist. It would be dumb to blame anyone else.

[Lemonvariable72]

Meh, I think I'm going to refrain from any more posts in this thread. My nullgender ass just is not a part of the discussion, and nor is everyone regardless of gender. Just more putting everything on women and then calling most feminists extreme.

Okay, who is "putting more on women" or generalizing feminists?

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

When you find a feminist who cares about equality, tell me.

I find feminists only care about equality when women need to be made equal to men.

I am a pro feminist male. And I happen to want equality for all. I am a man of color and I am not shy about my pro feminism. I think that women of all colors have been the most oppressed group of people in all of history. On this issue I refuse to stand down

In all of history?

More than, say, gays? Or pedophiles?

Heck, for a long time in our history women had access to parts of society black people could only dream of.

Children were forced into inhumane conditions, working in situations we would not put adults in today.

Jews and the handicapped were herded together like cattle and massacred.

Tutsis were literally butchered to pieces in Rwanda, Chinese men, women and children were tortured, raped and mutilated in Nanking, and the horrific brutalities exercised against the Armenians by the Ottomans during WW1.

I don't know how you can say what you do with a straight face.

Women have had some of the greatest benefits in all of history, with men fighting all the wars, doing all the dirty and dangerous work, taking risks and putting their lives on the line to provide for their families.

A sensible view of society would see the balance of male and female roles in history as a complex and multifaceted one. Not your simplistic black-and-white "Woman: The perpetual victim" nonsense.

Women like TaraJo deserve to be applauded for having their head on straight compared to the constant moaning of that tiny sliver of the population who will never be satisfied no matter how much they get.