Christians, your God cannot be Perfect.

[Mudhammam]

I have been told that God is Perfect and Good. Theologians call the degradation of Good, Evil. If you accept these premises then consider the following:

Any possible act by God must be less than Perfect, or less than Perfectly Good, and therefore Evil. Why? Because if only God is Perfect, then God cannot create anything Perfect like himself. Otherwise this other Perfect thing would have to be identical to God, and then we would have two Perfect Gods. Obviously, you reject that there can be two Perfect Gods. But if he can only create imperfections, such as Universes and human beings, then in what way is that being Perfect? We must conclude then that a being who can only create imperfections is himself imperfect. Therefore, God is not Perfect nor Perfectly Good.

Edit: To clarify any possible confusion, I mean Perfect in the Anselmian sense, which many Christians enthusiastically endorse, including Christianity's Philosopher-In-Chief, William Craig, who says: "To say that I tacitly endorse Anselmian Perfect Being Theology is an understatement.. I am an enthusiastic proponent.. I see the conception of God as the greatest conceivable being as one of the guides for systematic theology’s formulation of the doctrine of God."

[Drich]

Meh...

It seem there is a re occouring theme in your threads, in that it seem that you believe the bible to have originally written in English and that it must be read interpreted and accepted only from the English.

The Hebrew word for "perfect" when used to describe God is
tamiym
Pronunciation
tä·mēm'

It means:
complete, whole, entire, sound

complete, whole, entire

whole, sound, healthful

complete, entire (of time)

sound, wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity

what is complete or entirely in accord with truth and fact

The word in The Greek is:Transliteration
teleioō
Pronunciation
te-lā-o'-ō (Key)

It means
to make perfect, complete

to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end

to complete (perfect)

add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full

to be found perfect

to bring to the end (goal) proposed

to accomplish

bring to a close or fulfilment by event

of the prophecies of the scriptures.

You are trying to force this English defination of the words used above to describe God:
a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless <a perfect diamond>
b : satisfying all requirements : accurate
c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman>
d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : letter-perfect
e : legally valid

With that in mind I now ask why can't God be good and perfect?

[MindForgedManacle]

@OP Hm. This sounds like you read my thread. :-l

@Drich What a perfect example of a semantic dodge, especially since the examples you listed are essentially what is referred to by the word "perfect" in English. Now my own reason for rejecting the concept of perfection as incoherent is because there is no possible upper-bound with something like this. I could always imagine something 'greater'.

[Ryantology]

Meh...

It seem there is a re occouring theme in your threads, in that it seem that you believe the bible to have originally written in English and that it must be read interpreted and accepted only from the English.

The Hebrew word for "perfect" when used to describe God is
tamiym
Pronunciation
tä·mēm'

It means:
complete, whole, entire, sound

complete, whole, entire

whole, sound, healthful

complete, entire (of time)

sound, wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity

what is complete or entirely in accord with truth and fact

The word in The Greek is:Transliteration
teleioō
Pronunciation
te-lā-o'-ō (Key)

It means
to make perfect, complete

to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end

to complete (perfect)

add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full

to be found perfect

to bring to the end (goal) proposed

to accomplish

bring to a close or fulfilment by event

of the prophecies of the scriptures.

You are trying to force this English defination of the words used above to describe God:
a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless <a perfect diamond>
b : satisfying all requirements : accurate
c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman>
d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : letter-perfect
e : legally valid

With that in mind I now ask why can't God be good and perfect?

So, what you're saying is, God is only perfect if you define 'perfect' in such a way that it means something much less than what we mean it in English?

Just like how he's only good if you define 'good' as 'what God says is good'.

What a joke.

[Esquilax]

So, what you're saying is, God is only perfect if you define 'perfect' in such a way that it means something much less than what we mean it in English?

Why would this even surprise you? Christianity demands that its adherents systematically lower their expectations of lots of things, like evidence, morality, justified beliefs... It's really the only way their god, as he's described, can look impressive to them.

[Mudhammam]

@OP Hm. This sounds like you read my thread. :-l

@Drich What a perfect example of a semantic dodge, especially since the examples you listed are essentially what is referred to by the word "perfect" in English. Now my own reason for rejecting the concept of perfection as incoherent is because there is no possible upper-bound with something like this. I could always imagine something 'greater'.

LOL!
I PROMISE you I did not see that and bravos for articulating it way more efficiently than mine!
...Hey, maybe great minds think alike?

[Drich]

@OP Hm. This sounds like you read my thread. :-l

@Drich What a perfect example of a semantic dodge, especially since the examples you listed are essentially what is referred to by the word "perfect" in English. Now my own reason for rejecting the concept of perfection as incoherent is because there is no possible upper-bound with something like this. I could always imagine something 'greater'.

Is English the only language you speak?/ever have spoken?

[MindForgedManacle]

@OP Hm. This sounds like you read my thread. :-l

@Drich What a perfect example of a semantic dodge, especially since the examples you listed are essentially what is referred to by the word "perfect" in English. Now my own reason for rejecting the concept of perfection as incoherent is because there is no possible upper-bound with something like this. I could always imagine something 'greater'.

Is English the only language you speak?/ever have spoken?

Nope. Spanish and some Japanese thanks to my brother.

[Angrboda]

I haven't read MFM's thread, but it seems you are assuming there is only one perfection, which I don't think can be justified. If we imagine a perfect circle, and a perfect sphere, it's evident that both can be examples of perfection without being identical.

[Chad32]

I know he's not perfect by my definition, since I don't agree with some things he's done or said. Most people don't agree with everything he's done or said, because most people in America believe that slavery, genocide, and rape is wrong. Their best defense is to just have faith that it was better in the long run, but I don't have that kind of faith. I would need to have a serious talk with him about this, and if he pulls the kind of beating around the bush that he did with Job, saying I wasn't there when he made the world, I'd tell him to cut the bullshit and explain why he let current human culture determine what he felt was right and wrong.

He's not really better than any other deity at the time, except the ancient greeks didn't try to tell us that the olympic gods were perfect. They knew they were assholes, but since the greek gods were more powerful, there wasn't much they could do about it. I guess you could say the same about Yahweh, but I'm not about to worship a being that I don't like unless he shows himself to me as he showed himself to people in the old testament.