Children and punishments

[EgoRaptor]

If I ever have children I will never beat them. I'd be worried that it would turn them into masochists like me. As Christopher Hitchens said (I paraphrase), "Loving someone you fear is the heart of sadomasochism". When I was young I feared my mother just as much as I loved her, & I think that is why I am a masochist.

[KichigaiNeko]

Children..... an exercise in disaster management.

[bennyboy]

In this case, a spanking or a very loud "HEY!" would be better. The child can still associate discomfort with the stove, but without the parent pointlessly risking the child's wellbeing.

LOL! They very loud "HEY!" I agree with, and even picking them up and moving them away from the source of danger, would be a good solution. But spanking? Hurting them so they don't get hurt? Spanking them harms them just as much as a burn from the stove. One teaches them "If I do that mummy/daddy will hurt me." the other teaches them "Better not touch the stove, it'll hurt." Which is the better lesson? Which one that will actually be of some use when they're in a situation where mummy or daddy aren't there to hurt them?
What kind of morals are based on "That's wrong because mummy or daddy will hit me!"? Not very good ones. No wonder jails are full of people who were spanked as children.

First of all, let's start with jails. That was a dumb comment, unless you have numbers proving that. I think for the most part, most people in jail probably had parents who were too busy with their own problems (or with making an income), to adequately guide the child. If you want to demonize people who use spanking, you need to put up some meaningful links or stats.


In my opinion, children who live in a gray area are the most stressed. These include parents who alternate between wishy-washy and draconian, based on their mood of the day. They also include parents who negotiate punishments-- giving second chances, allowing solemn promises to delay the onset of punishment, etc.

Here's a conversation of the worst parent ever:
Kid: I want a toy!
Parent: No. You may not have the toy.
Kid: But I waaaant the toy.
Parent: No. You didn't do your homework, so I will not buy a toy for you (makes a new rule on the spot, out of the blue)
Kid: (shrieking) But I waaant it. I waaant it. Waaahhhh.
Parent: Okay. . . do you promise to do homework next time, if I buy the toy today?
Kid: *sniffs* Okay!
Parent: Okay. . . get the toy
Kid: *never does the homework and turns into a douche for life*

Here's a conversation of one of my kids:
Kid: I want a toy!
Me: No, not today.
Kid: I waaaant a toy!
Me: Watch it, buster. I said no, and that's the end of it.
Kid: (shrieking) I waaaaant it.
Me: Next time you scream, you get spanked, right here, right now.
Kid: But I waaaaaannn *thwack! thwack! thwack!*
Me: Listen. I love you, give me a hug. *hug* If I tell you to stop doing something, you stop, okay buddy?
Kid: *sniff* Okay, Daddy.

Each of my kids had this conversation with me about 2x in their lives.

Here's a conversation of a "liberal" parent's kid (seen through my eyes obviously):
Kid: I want a toy!
Parent: No, Skyler. You haven't earned enough "happy points" to get a toy.
Kid: But I waaaaaaant a toy!
Parent: I don't like this behavior. If you keeping doing it, I'm going to take away 3 "happy points."
Kid: (shrieking) I waaaaaant it.
Parent (2 hours later): Okay, Skyler. I'm taking away 3 happy points because I didn't like your behavior in the mall.
Kid: (not comprehending what's happening because a 2 year-old can't comprehend delayed punishements or rewards well) *confused*


I'm not condoning beating as a regular form of moral retribution. I'm saying that a strong response once or twice in life, if done right, will save a lifetime of confusion and negotiation. I don't EVER spank my kids now-- because I don't need to. I just raise my voice a little, and they scamper off to do what they're told, having been conditioned to fear my disapproval.

As for results: my daughter is happy, popular in school, and placed 3rd in a violin competition in Korea (i.e. a big one). She's "Daddy's girl," shares many of my hobbies with me, and smiles very often. My son is three, never has tantrums in public, and take pride in helping take care of our new puppy, or in helping us do chores. Instead of whining all the time, he attempts to get attention by engaging me: he'll bring items of interest (to him) into my room to talk about. If I tell him I'm busy and he has to leave me alone, he will go tell his mother about it, she'll distract him, and I will go play with him when I'm able to. No drama, no kicking and screaming. No headaches.

There's one more part to this: I was often put in the corner or given the "silent treatment" as a kid. I felt confused and unloved. I didn't see the punishment as a "time out" from playing-- I saw it as a "time out" from the love of my parents-- and to me, that's much more cruel than a couple of quick swats to the backside. I'd NEVER neglect a child in that way.

[x2theone2x]

When a child is weak due to emotional, physical, and legal constraints; their caregiver will be both their guide, and regulator. When a senior is weak due to emotional, physical, and legal constraints, their caregiver will be both their guide, and regulator. With saying that, any punishment can and will lead to some form of compliance issues, power issues, and etc, but the lack of it can as well. I feel the safest way is not to be an asshole by what the consensus aligns to what assholishness is. I don't believe in physical punishment, unless the individual has never experienced what he is doing to other people. I don't believe in emotional punishment either, but a reinforcement of societal norms through praise.

[là bạn điên]

I hate the way that people who hit their kids think they are so damned morally superior because they are too lazy to actually spend time. The kids of Liberal parents I know are generally well balanced pleasant kids who act out of morality and not fear. Thuggish parents seem to make out that bad people come from liberal parents which is nonsense. bad people come from families that use violence.

[No_God]

As a first time mother... HELP I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM DOING!


I use the time out method. It doesn't work for my kid. He is very strong willed.

[Ben Davis]

As a first time mother... HELP I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM DOING!


I use the time out method. It doesn't work for my kid. He is very strong willed.

Lol! So's mine (although I'm secretly really happy about this!) and I had trouble at first. Mine's just 3 and time-out/naughty step has worked for about the past year. How old's yours?

The things that made the difference were:

- consistency: every (and I mean every) instance of misbehaviour was given the punishment, no matter how small. Draw a firm and easy-to-understand boundary. Complexity can come as they get older and the system is well established.

- getting them to stay in place: pick your spot carefully. Make sure there are no distractions, things to play with or escape routes that don't go past where you are (you may need to position yourself strategically to make sure they can't escape if they make a dash for it). Use reinforcement every time you put them in place; this avoids making it a game. You may need to do this a few times but with effective consistency and reinforcement, they should quickly stop trying to escape. Most importantly, don't stop putting them in place, no matter how many times it takes! It's a battle of wills that you must win!!

- reinforcement: as you put them in time-out/on the naughty step, come right down to them (I don't mean bend-over, I mean sit on the floor so that your eyes are at the same level) and tell them exactly why they're in time-out in language they can understand. Get an acknowledgement that they've heard you before you walk away and start the time. Stay away for the whole time (unless they try to escape!) then reinforce when you go back. I repeat the reasons why they're in time-out and get them to repeat back to me then I explain why the behaviour is unacceptable (e.g. 'you'll hurt yourself/you'll hurt someone else/you'll smash that thing'). Then get the apology and reinforce your personal connection (e.g. now that you're behaving we can have close time/sitting on lap/play). As the child gets older, make the reinforcement more explanatory, the time-out longer and request more detail/empathy in the response before finishing the punishment. Complete all steps of the reinforcement, every time: once again, this is a battle of wills!

If you want professional advice, have a read of SuperNanny (Jo Frost) for an excellent model for time-outs.

P.s. BATTLE OF WILLS!!!1!11!!!!

[No_God]

Mine is 3 but he turns 4 on the 22nd of this month.

The most important thing a parent can do is be consistent with rules. I don't believe it is the duration of the punishment that corrects behavior it is the consistent reaction the child gets every time he or she does something that is wrong (hits, spits, bites, stupid things that kids do, etc...)

Right now we are working on yelling and overall hyperactivity. My kid is HYPER. So, I'm trying to encourage some sort of calming routine that helps him recognize his behavior and relax when he gets too hyper.

For the past 3 months I have been battling him with potty training. I tried everything. Movies, examples, buying 4 different types of potties and toilets... nothing worked and I started to get extremely frustrated... so one day I said screw it and I let him crap his pants everyday for about 3 weeks and every time he pooped in his underwear I would put him in the shower. NO bath, NO toys, NO playtime. After a few weeks of that he finally started going with out any assistance on the big toilet. I know everyone has their own little theories about potty training... they are not universal. Things that work for my kid may not work for yours. This is why I hate talking to other mothers. They always have shitty advice to give and brag about how well their kid is doing.

[pocaracas]

Timeouts don't work with my kids... 3 boys... even if I put them in different corners, they'll be giving signals at each other and just doing stupid things...
Plus, experience shows, regardless of punishment, they just repeat it... The only punishment they *ahem* respect *ahem* is pain.
The "go to your room" is stupid... too many toys in there.
The "sit at the table until you finish your food" sort of works... about 50% of the time, they do eat it... the rest, the food just stays there for some 2 hours... until they really need to go to bed (dinner), or we need to go some place else (lunch)... it can be a frustrating waste of good food.

Most of the time, I end up revoking the computer and TV rights... with the computer, it's relatively easy to enforce, but the tv... if I punish one, then all suffer the same punishment, and that comes off as worse than the alternative.

But the first resort is always a nice shout out. "set the table, please".... "hey, guys, set the table!".... "TV OFF! TABLE, NOW!!"