Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 29, 2024, 7:39 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Digital Philosophy and Religion
#1
Digital Philosophy and Religion
I think that we are most likely living inside a gigantic computer, although, of course, there is no way to actually know that. Even if the idea is true, a simulated reality would be indistinguishable from "true" reality. So I guess this is basically an analogy more than anything else. But, it seems to be the most perfect one in connection with religion, so I wanted to explain this a little bit.


This is an old idea actually, and a modern term for this is generally referred to as "digital philosophy" (see the links below) which essentially maintains that all mental and physical activities are digitized information processing: Our brains, genes, living things, galaxies, planets, rocks, and everything else are essentially physical systems which are storing and processing bits of information in a systematic manner - similar to what happens in a computer. The universe itself behaves like a computer and as if it's running on a powerful program ... but we don't know what it is yet.

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Black...puters.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_philosophy


I do believe that everything we see are "real," but just that what we perceive makes up only the very surface of reality. There is a "greater reality" that exists beyond our awareness, and so the present reality is not as real as we think it is. To extend the idea further, maybe the keyboard that I'm typing on can somehow be turned into some other mysterious object, or a tree can turn into a jumping spider, or a mountain can switch places with another mountain instantly. Such "physically impossible" events would be just like the story of how Moses's rod turned into a snake when he threw it to the ground, or the splitting of the Red Sea, or Jesus turning water into wine, or the splitting of the moon in half, and so and so forth ... events which are possible only if the laws of nature are temporarily hackable somehow, perhaps through divine intervention only ... otherwise known as "miracles."

The whole universe might be something like a gigantic computer which is running down and, eventually, it may crash one day. The bright and stunning stars, galaxies, and even the rest of the universe may cease to exist. But, then, what would happen to our actions in this world? Do they get destroyed also like everything else?

Well, from a religious point of view, we believe that our deeds (or actions) won't be destroyed because they are being automatically "written down" so that they are saved or preserved somewhere for future retrieval - sort of like the "auto-save" in a computer - which later can be replaced or deleted by other deeds.

Perhaps even the whole universe is registering and processing bits of information and there might be some kind of a built-in "memory" system embedded inside it, which is recording our actions.

What about the plausibility of resurrection and afterlife? Can some information get reconstructed in full after they have been destroyed?

I believe that the answer is yes, because postmortem preservation of identity is a fundamental concept in my religion. And this is the idea that our skin, bones, fingers, and our entire bodies will be resurrected into one piece as they were before. Our bodies will be put back into an earlier form; they will be reconstructed even up to the "very tips of our fingers," as the Quran says. And I think that the resurrection process could be something like a real-life system restore, or maybe it would be a kind of natural "reversible computation" that brings dead things back to life again. Thinking

People with more sins might take a longer time to go to Heaven because they will encounter a greater amount of obstacles and punishments than those people with less sins. This, to me, also relates well with the analogy that I've been speaking of, because when a computer is filled with too much junk information and viruses and all that stuff over the years, then it starts to operate more slowly. So in the same way, if our souls accumulate a greater load of sins then there is going to be a greater amount of "lag" for us during our spiritual journey; the sins will slow us down just like too many bugs and viruses inside a computer may cause it to operate more slowly ... SYSTEM ERROR!!! And the main mastermind behind that is the devil who is like an interminable spammer, who whispers things into our heads because he is desperate to overload our brains with all kinds of bad intentions and bad ideas. Demon

Interestingly, many people believe that the universe is complex enough that they are justified in ascribing an "intelligence" or a "consciousness" to the engineering of all the countless events occurring in nature. In relation to the computational/informational view of reality, that equals to saying that the universe passes the Turing test. They believe that the complex phenomenons in nature are rather signs of an intelligent designer. Others believe that the events in nature are most likely simply a result of blind and accidental forces - i.e. there is no intelligent/conscious/mind-like properties needed to create them - so respectively they must believe that the universe doesn't pass the Turing test.


At any rate, I'm aware that this "universe is a computer" analogy comes across a little too wacky for many people to believe this, apparently. There is no solid evidence to back up this kind of thinking. But, still, it is something that I have found to have a sound correspondence with religious beliefs which I doubt is merely coincidental. Thus the analogy here is quite interesting to me.
Reply
#2
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
I honestly tend to find this sort of thing just a stream of non sequiturs about various scientific facts.
"The reason things will never get better is because people keep electing these rich cocksuckers who don't give a shit about you."
-George Carlin
Reply
#3
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
(January 18, 2014 at 8:03 pm)Rayaan Wrote: The universe itself behaves like a computer and as if it's running on a powerful program ... but we don't know what it is yet.

The universe behaves nothing like a computer because by far the most common thing in the universe is empty space.


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply
#4
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
(January 19, 2014 at 2:14 am)rasetsu Wrote: The universe behaves nothing like a computer because by far the most common thing in the universe is empty space.

1. Empty space is not actually empty (in case you didn't know that).

2. Pretty much anything consisting of various combination of arrangements made up of a finite set of components, and is capable of showing emergent properties, can be regarded as a "computer." So at a larger scale, all the atoms in the universe are analogous to the bits inside a laptop or a computer, and through the countless atomic collisions and rearrangements we can think of the universe as performing a massive computation. The laws of physics are analogous to a software, the initial matter and energy are the input, and the results of the computation are the output. In that sense, physical reality is indistinguishable from a computer, or a quantum computer, more precisely. As professor Seth Lloyd wrote in his book Programming the Universe:

"The universe is made of bits. Every molecule, atom, and elementary particle registers bits of information. Every interaction between those pieces of the universe processes that information by altering those bits. That is, the universe computes, and because the universe is governed by the laws of quantum mechanics, it computes in an intrinsically quantum-mechanical fashion; its bits are quantum bits. The history of the universe is, in effect, a huge and ongoing quantum computation." (Lloyd, 3)

3. This contemporary view of a computational universe is also deeply related, via the concept of information, to a contemporary field of mathematical research called algorithmic information theory. And I learned that this view has a consistent and a reasonable application to the whole of our observable reality - including life itself.

In fact, a mathematician and computer scientist, Gregory Chaitin, has worked on some key ideas and problems in the field of biology - especially on complexity and evolution - to basically understand how they relate to algorithmic information theory and mathematics. This eventually led him to the development a workable and very interesting mathematical theory of biology, where he synthesized some key concepts from biology and mathematics into a computational view of reality. You can listen to a lecture about this at the video below:

Life as Evolving Software - Gregory Chaitin


(January 19, 2014 at 1:30 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: I honestly tend to find this sort of thing just a stream of non sequiturs about various scientific facts.

I'm not sure what those non-sequiturs are, though. So a little more elaboration might help to understand that comment better. I mean, the OP is basically an interpret ion of some religious ideas in relation to a philosophical/theoretical framework as I described above. I can understand if you said that the ideas that I presented here are "too insane," or "inconsistent," or "incompatible with science/reality" ... or something along those lines. But I don't quite see what the non-sequiturs are.
Reply
#5
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
I think the best possible argument against the Universe behaving like a computer is the obvious fact that the Universe doesn't routinely shut down for inexplicable reasons. I mean honestly, when was the last time gravity just shut off?

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
Reply
#6
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
(January 19, 2014 at 4:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I think the best possible argument against the Universe behaving like a computer is the obvious fact that the Universe doesn't routinely shut down for inexplicable reasons. I mean honestly, when was the last time gravity just shut off?

Boru

Since you yourself are a part of the simulation, you wouldn't be aware of it being suspended because your awareness would be suspended too. The best analogy to this is a flashlight. What does the flashlight "see" when it's turned off? This is like consciousness; when you're asleep, you're not aware that you're not aware.


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply
#7
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
(January 19, 2014 at 4:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I think the best possible argument against the Universe behaving like a computer is the obvious fact that the Universe doesn't routinely shut down for inexplicable reasons. I mean honestly, when was the last time gravity just shut off?

Boru

That's not a good argument, because the cosmological computer doesn't necessarily need to routinely shut down if it's powerful and massive enough as it is; it can compute for a long, long time.

It may shut down once it's computational capacity has become exhausted, though. Or it may just reboot itself after an indefinite period of time.


Also, here's an interesting panel discussion.
Reply
#8
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
It is a possibility, but a testable one. The idea being that a simulation would need to be Turing computable. If we found phenomena that wasn't computable or if we found a computer that could compute Gödel unprovable statements, it would be a violation. According to the Penrose Hameroff conjecture the brain is a candidate for being such a computer. Though orchestrated objective reduction has many criticisms, recent experimental evidence has shown quantum phenomena does exist in brain microtubules. You can read more here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computati...rse_theory

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra..._reduction

http://phys.org/news/2014-01-discovery-q...rates.html
Reply
#9
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
(January 19, 2014 at 4:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I think the best possible argument against the Universe behaving like a computer is the obvious fact that the Universe doesn't routinely shut down for inexplicable reasons. I mean honestly, when was the last time gravity just shut off?

Boru

If the universe did reboot how would you know?
Reply
#10
RE: Digital Philosophy and Religion
[Image: philosoraptor_red_pill_blue_pill-s400x40...50-580.jpg]
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  How worthless is Philosophy? vulcanlogician 125 5597 February 27, 2024 at 7:57 pm
Last Post: Belacqua
  Philosophy Recommendations Harry Haller 21 1439 January 5, 2024 at 10:58 am
Last Post: HappySkeptic
  The Philosophy Of Stupidity. disobey 51 3608 July 27, 2023 at 3:02 am
Last Post: Carl Hickey
  Hippie philosophy Fake Messiah 19 1617 January 21, 2023 at 1:56 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  [Serious] Generally speaking, is philosophy a worthwhile subject of study? Disagreeable 238 13043 May 21, 2022 at 10:38 am
Last Post: highdimensionman
  My philosophy about Religion SuicideCommando01 18 2652 April 5, 2020 at 9:52 pm
Last Post: SuicideCommando01
  High level philosophy robvalue 46 4947 November 1, 2018 at 10:44 pm
Last Post: DLJ
  Why I'm here: a Muslim. My Philosophy in life. What is yours;Muslim? WinterHold 43 8286 May 27, 2018 at 12:20 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 12061 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Revolution in Philosophy? Jehanne 11 2269 April 4, 2018 at 9:01 am
Last Post: Jehanne



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)