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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 23, 2008 at 3:29 pm
(October 23, 2008 at 2:48 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:22 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:15 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 1:59 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 1:54 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 1:31 pm)chatpilot Wrote: ManofGOD let me ask you a question.So, since we don't know the origins of life through scientific discovery you think we are to just give up and accept the version written down by some leader of a nomadic tribe that claims to have had a revelation from God about 6 to 10,000 years ago?That makes as much sense as jumping off a plane without a parachute.Also,remember that a revelation is only a revelation to the one who claims to have received it and hearsay to all the rest.
[/quote
I have had a revelation from GOD and more. It takes very little to go from atheist to believer. I do not believe that science should be neglected, because of a belief in GOD. The GOD of creation is a GOD of order and he loves logic, reason and truth.
I'd almost go as far as saying that this seems like you're pretending to believe this, - for a joke. It somewhat seems like it IMO.
Oh and btw, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as plausible as any other 'supernatural' God.
Ramen.
Oh, and one more thing, whether you're really serious or not: If the soul=conscious mind and the heart=unconscious mind...then whats supernatural about that? What's supernatural about the soul and the spirit if they're merely material parts of the mind that can be explained neurologically etc.
P.S: You're surprisingly fun to debate with, it seems as though something funny's going on.
Ramen.
Remember, the neurological perspective, while valid, is only an aspect of the truth. The spirit is a part of GOD. Only GODs word can nourish the spirit. The spirit/soul lives on after death. I dis-regarded the bible, until earlier this year when I had a spiritual birth. I said:
Quote:If the soul=conscious mind and the heart=unconscious mind...then whats supernatural about that? What's supernatural about the soul and the spirit if they're merely material parts of the mind that can be explained neurologically etc.
Where is the spiritual explanation? Other than just a mere claim that spirit exists? I said that you said that the conscious mind is soul and the unconcsious mind is spirit...if they are just parts of the mind....how's that spiritual? How's that supernatural?
Its like Steven Weinberg said, and I paraphrase here: 'If you say God is the universe or God is energy. Then you can find God in a lump of coal.'
How is that in any way spritual or supernatural? How is that anything other than material? What's spiritual about that?
Ok I gotta go, just for the now, - I'll be back later.
The spiritual and physical are intricately linked. Clearly only the physical is discernable to the eye. GOD desires minimal interference with His creation, but those that truely seek Him, will find Him.
(October 23, 2008 at 2:36 pm)bozo Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:29 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:14 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:01 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: [quote='chatpilot' pid='2550' dateline='1224783988']
now my friend I have been there and done that.I was a Pentecostal evangelist and am sorry to tell you that what you experienced is a form of self delusion.
How can you be so sure? Modern psychology (though, your analysis is rather off the cuff) leaves no room for issues of spirit. I agree but only in the sense that I don't personally think that chatpilot or anyone for that matter, can truly know anything in the 100% sense. I dunno though maybe chatpilot wasn't talking 100%.
But are you? Are you talking 100%? How can you be so sure about what you 'know'...?
I think that all evidence suggests God doesn't exist. You think otherwise. But thats not my point in this post my point is this:
I would like to ask you the following question, and would like an answer (although you don't have to answer it): How sure are you that God exists? I'm talking estimated probabilities here...how sure are you?
I have kidney failure and at one point in my life was close to death and declared beyond medical help. I was 100% certain that there was no GOD before and after this event. I cannot begin to explain how certain I am. One morning, I got up and I felt GODs Love for me.
man of god.....you're balmy,deluded....you need help.
dear Bozo
Do not deny my experience. Neither the medical profession, nor the average priest can help me. man of god, to repeat, you are obviously a crazy, nevertheless the medical profession is more likely to be of use to you than a priest.
 A man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 23, 2008 at 5:26 pm
(October 23, 2008 at 2:29 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:14 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 2:01 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 1:46 pm)chatpilot Wrote: now my friend I have been there and done that.I was a Pentecostal evangelist and am sorry to tell you that what you experienced is a form of self delusion.
How can you be so sure? Modern psychology (though, your analysis is rather off the cuff) leaves no room for issues of spirit. I agree but only in the sense that I don't personally think that chatpilot or anyone for that matter, can truly know anything in the 100% sense. I dunno though maybe chatpilot wasn't talking 100%.
But are you? Are you talking 100%? How can you be so sure about what you 'know'...?
I think that all evidence suggests God doesn't exist. You think otherwise. But thats not my point in this post my point is this:
I would like to ask you the following question, and would like an answer (although you don't have to answer it): How sure are you that God exists? I'm talking estimated probabilities here...how sure are you?
I have kidney failure and at one point in my life was close to death and declared beyond medical help. I was 100% certain that there was no GOD before and after this event. I cannot begin to explain how certain I am. One morning, I got up and I felt GODs Love for me. If you feel something it doesn't mean its really happening or there....you feel stuff while you're dreaming...but thats an imaginary world.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm
(October 23, 2008 at 12:15 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: Hmmm. Sadly evolution, while consisting of facts and verifiable theories, cannot explain the origins of life. Attacks on religion are wrong. Spiritual truths are revealed by GOD in the religions. Attacks on religion are right
evolution does explain the origins of life
scientist can make life forms viruses etc..
Atheist = Realist
Theist = Arealist
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 24, 2008 at 8:47 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2008 at 4:22 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm)Bungy Wrote: (October 23, 2008 at 12:15 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: Hmmm. Sadly evolution, while consisting of facts and verifiable theories, cannot explain the origins of life. Attacks on religion are wrong. Spiritual truths are revealed by GOD in the religions. Attacks on religion are right
evolution does explain the origins of life
scientist can make life forms viruses etc.. Hmmm, well noone(*edit)knows exactly how life originated for sure yet...but once we have the origins of life, all life evolved from that....
And there is ZERO evidence to suggest that anything supernatural started off the origins of life. All evidence suggests that it was purely natural. - also, all evidence suggests that EVERYTHING is natural...there is no supernatural as far as we know...zero.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 24, 2008 at 12:50 pm
I agree EvidencevsFaith feelings are deceptive and there are so many other external influences that tend to affect how or what one feels.I am sure there is a psycho-emotional connection when it comes to feeling the holy spirit etc.You have to first prime yourself into beleiving he exist and be willing to give in to that emotion to let it take over you.Self-delusion is all that that is.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 24, 2008 at 4:29 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2008 at 4:33 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 24, 2008 at 12:50 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I agree EvidencevsFaith feelings are deceptive and there are so many other external influences that tend to affect how or what one feels.I am sure there is a psycho-emotional connection when it comes to feeling the holy spirit etc.You have to first prime yourself into beleiving he exist and be willing to give in to that emotion to let it take over you.Self-delusion is all that that is. Ramen to that!
Its all this 'Oh Lord help me overcome my unbelief' self-convincing BS...they think they're getting help from 'the Lord', when in my very strong opinion indeed they are simply just getting help from themselves - convincing themselves. But the illusion that it isn't them is what makes it so strong. If they actually thought they were doing it - I just don't believe it could possibly work. I've experienced it. Not with God, but with the 'Law of Attraction' 'The Secret' BS....I was convincing myself, but it only worked psychologically at times because I actually thought there was this higher power (unreal apparently 'natural' law in its case)that made my thoughts powerful enough to effect the world.
So I think if any faith-head be it a religious or in my previous case, a pseudoscientific faith-head - I think the whole self-convincing thing doesn't work if you actually think you're only using your own limited("oh my God how dare they be limited!") powers. It only works if you actually believe that there's some kind of superpower (or in my case super 'natural' law) far greater than yourself.
Hope that wasn't too overdone or drawn out...but I've actually experienced this BS but as a pseudoscientific equivalent...
So I'm just rather passionate about it.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 29, 2008 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2008 at 12:32 pm by chatpilot.)
I agree with you wholeheartedly EvidenceVsFaith self delusion is necessary to believe and actually feel the so called presence of God.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 29, 2008 at 12:36 pm
(October 29, 2008 at 12:30 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I agree with you wholeheartedly EvidenceVsFaith self delusion is necessary to believe and actually feel the so called presence of God. Well thats good, I'm glad that it seems you understand what I understand, but I'm not claiming anything as I'm sure you know.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 31, 2008 at 10:39 am
Of course not,but it's a fact to me.I don't have any doubts about anything when it comes to god.
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RE: Dawkins>Prospect(?)
October 31, 2008 at 11:01 am
(October 23, 2008 at 12:15 pm)ManofGOD Wrote: Hmmm. Sadly evolution, while consisting of facts and verifiable theories, cannot explain the origins of life.
You are correct, because the theory of evolution through natural selection and genetic mutation isn't about the origin of life. It's about the diversity of life. But you knew that of course. 
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
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